144,000?

[BM5]

So here is the question May which is meant as a challenge to you because of your claims to the 144,00, why is the tribe of Dan excluded from this list ?

 

[may]

So here is the question May which is meant as a challenge to you because of your claims to the 144,00, why is the tribe of Dan excluded from this list ?

it is easy to see why the names of Ephraim and Dan do not appear among the twelve tribes of spiritual Israel.
It is noteworthy that the only ancient historical incident specifically dealing with the Danites tells of some of them falling away to idolatry. Apparently they were the first to do so. Thus in the Targum of Jonathan "Dan" is a byword for idolatry.
In spite of Ephraims favored start the tribe of Ephraim produced a notoriously bad record.

 

[BM5]

it is easy to see why the names of Ephraim and Dan do not appear among the twelve tribes of spiritual Israel.
It is noteworthy that the only ancient historical incident specifically dealing with the Danites tells of some of them falling away to idolatry. Apparently they were the first to do so. Thus in the Targum of Jonathan "Dan" is a byword for idolatry.
In spite of Ephraims favored start the tribe of Ephraim produced a notoriously bad record.

Well lets never mind Ephraim for the present. The focus is on Dan.

1. It is written: Dan made ships. ( Old Testament somewhere )
2. Think about the diaspora. ( the first destruction of the temple in Jerusalem )
3. Exactly where did these people of true Israel go ?
4. Let's just put and " e " on the end of Dan.
5. Dan = Dane = Danish = Scandanavia = Northern Europe
6. Historical period of Dan between 800 and 1100 A.D. = The ultimate in terrorism to
the people of Europe which = THE VIKINGS ! The worst sin against humanity is
terrorism of masses. The important point here is that Dan was terrorizing the
other tribes of true Israel. Dan betrayed his brethern being the proxy of another.
7. Yahweh has judged Dan and never more will Dan with Tribe Status be reprsented
before Him forever !
8. If this seems unreasonable then look into the instruction that Yahweh gave to
Samuel to give to Saul to destroy Amelec and all of his - man- woman - child ! This
is not a God that forgets anything nor turns the other cheek !! ( Generations before
they picked off the straggelers of Israel in the Exodus from Egypt - using
the spoils to build their nation )
9. So lets look at Dan in Northern Europe in genitics. Primary being BLUE eyed, blond
hair ! But the only truly important genitic code is the BLUE EYE. That tells the story
since there are lots of people with blue eye and blond or red or brown etc. When
see those beautiful blue eyes then you are looking at a Danite.
10. Dan was certainly given to idolatary as you say May. The Vikings had Thor and
who knows what else.
11. As for your sect the Jehovah Witness. I must honestly admit that I have no
experience with your people who claim to be of the 144,000 who approach
the offerings on Good Friday but I am more than certain that the majority have
been BLUE EYED and therefore from the tribe of Dan, which is proscribed from the
the 144,000 mentioned in the Apocalypse.
12. When the time comes the JW's will come out of their Shangrala and the whole
structure will wither and perish. You will come to the true knowledge of God
Almighty and be counted among His saints.

 

[wmam]

I still have trouble understanding how a dark skinned race of people, as those of the Shemites, be escaping the destruction of their Temple, and their city, to travel north and west over, pretty much, the entire width, and breast, of the Roman Empire, which of course are those that did the destruction, to reach the area as described as DAN = DANE = DANUBE etc. etc. etc. without either being noticed and taken out or made to be slaves. I guess that one would have to believe that the tribe of Dan was still pretty much in force and around at that time. I was under the idea that the tribe of Dan was taken with the other northern tribes of Yisrael hundreds of years earlier. I think I will go out on a limb here to say that it is my understanding that most fled into Mizraim and Ethiopia, the lands of the Hamites, which were Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut. I just have trouble seeing these peoples moving toward, and into, the lands of the sons of Yepheth, which is the father of all gentile nations. Gentiles are a "Indo-Euro-Asianic" peoples. I, as a white man, am one of these. A Shemite, or Hamite, would stick out like a sore thumb against a sea of the sons of Yepheth. This is why Yoseph was not recognized by his brothers. They were close of the same skin color as the ones of Mizraim. He blended in. This is not possible in the northern areas of europe.

 

[Bick]

Quote
John Calvin said that God will save only so many souls, 144,000, and that nobody knows who they are but God and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Where on earth did he get this idea?
___________________________
I read the Wikipedia document on John Calvin, and, if the info is correct, Calvin made no commentaries on Revelation, wven questioning whether it should be apart of the Canon. So, what is the source for your reference above?

Bick

 

[may]

11. As for your sect the Jehovah Witness. I must honestly admit that I have no
experience with your people who claim to be of the 144,000 quote] the 144,000 who are SPIRITUAL Jews in that they are from all nations , starting with the early christians who were all jews, but the 144,000 are from all nations both men and women ,Jehovah is the one who chose them , but it is up to each individual if they remain faithful , some were chosen but they did not endure , but the NUMBER of 144,000 was decided by God , that number was just what God wanted,
The apostle John wrote: "I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand." (Revelation 7:4) In the Bible, the phrase "those who were sealed" refers to a group of individuals who are chosen from among mankind to rule with Christ in heaven over the coming Paradise earth. (2 Corinthians 1:21, 22; Revelation 5:9, 10; 20:6) Their number, 144,000, is understood literally for several reasons. One is found in the immediate context of Revelation 7:4.
After the apostle John was told in vision about this group of 144,000 individuals, he was shown another group. John describes this second group as "a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues." This great crowd refers to those who will survive the coming "great tribulation," which will destroy the present wicked world.—Revelation 7:9, 14.so 144,000 will go to heaven ,but a great crowd with no number will inherit the earth.................
Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.matthew 5;5

But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,​

And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peacepsalm 37;11

 

[BM5]

So you say May.

 

[may]

So you say May.

so the bible says,
"Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom."—LUKE 12:32. these ones who are going to heaven are spiritual Jews and compared to the great crowd of OTHER SHEEP that listen to Jesus voice , they are small in number , only a little flock of 144,000
"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd."—JOHN 10:16. yes, these other sheep are a great crowd without a number.revelation 7;9-10

 

[Reverend Rick]

so the bible says,
"Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom."—LUKE 12:32. these ones who are going to heaven are spiritual Jews and compared to the great crowd of OTHER SHEEP that listen to Jesus voice , they are small in number , only a little flock of 144,000
"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd."—JOHN 10:16. yes, these other sheep are a great crowd without a number.revelation 7;9-10

Frubals!

 

[BM5]

Well May, and nothing personal but I thought the Doctors of the Catholic Church had a monopoly on spin, but I guess I was wrong.

 

[may]

Well May, and nothing personal but I thought the Doctors of the Catholic Church had a monopoly on spin, but I guess I was wrong.

"And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant."Daniel 12;4 now is the time that true knowledge is very abundant indeed, and its all bible based , with no manmade traditions to cloud the thought.

 

[Ernestine]

He got this idea from the book of Revelation that speaks of 144,000 chosen ones that will serve as princes with Jesus Christ and reign over the earthly Kingdom that he establishes. Though only a few will go to heaven (144,000), the rest of us have the possibility of being part of the "great crowd" that will make up Jesus' Kingdom here on earth.

 

[BM5]

"And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant."Daniel 12;4 now is the time that true knowledge is very abundant indeed, and its all bible based , with no manmade traditions to cloud the thought.

Well May and how I wish I could tell you about the Hidden Scroll but I can't, at least not now. I have the true knowledge and like I said nothing personal but you don't because you believe in lies and I am heartbroken about it. I know the JW's and know that you for the most part are good upstanding people who only want to love God and serve Him in truth.The 144,000 are nothing what they have told you. But what can I provide to you as truth of this ?

Well the day will come and I will send you the sign.

I feel that way.

BM5

 

[may]

Well May and how I wish I could tell you about the Hidden Scroll but I can't, at least not now. I have the true knowledge and like I said nothing personal but you don't because you believe in lies and I am heartbroken about it. I know the JW's and know that you for the most part are good upstanding people who only want to love God and serve Him in truth.The 144,000 are nothing what they have told you. But what can I provide to you as truth of this ?

Well the day will come and I will send you the sign.

I feel that way.

BM5

the bible does not tell lies the bible is a book of truth. and rather than telling us about hidden scrolls it tells us about NEW scrolls
Evidently these are God’s written instructions that will serve as a basis for educating earth’s inhabitants. (Revelation 20:12) Mankind will learn, not war, but peace. All destructive weapons will be gone forever. (Psalm 46:9) Inhabitants of the new world will be taught to treat their fellow humans with love, respect, and dignity.

Mankind will become one united family. There will be no barriers to unity and brotherhood. (Psalm 133:1-3) No one’s home will have to be locked to keep thieves out. Peace will reign in every heart, in every house, in every part of the earth.—Micah 4:4.​

 

[Bick]

John Calvin said that God will save only so many souls, 144,000, and that nobody knows who they are but God and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Where on earth did he get this idea?

Could you give me the document in which John Calvin wrote this? I would like to read more of it.

Bick

 

[BM5]

the bible does not tell lies the bible is a book of truth. and rather than telling us about hidden scrolls it tells us about NEW scrolls
Evidently these are God’s written instructions that will serve as a basis for educating earth’s inhabitants. (Revelation 20:12) Mankind will learn, not war, but peace. All destructive weapons will be gone forever. (Psalm 46:9) Inhabitants of the new world will be taught to treat their fellow humans with love, respect, and dignity.

Mankind will become one united family. There will be no barriers to unity and brotherhood. (Psalm 133:1-3) No one’s home will have to be locked to keep thieves out. Peace will reign in every heart, in every house, in every part of the earth.—Micah 4:4.​

The Bible is a mixture of truth, half truth and out right lies.

But even if the Bible were the complete and utter truth of God word for word the interpetation of the 144,000 as presented by your sect would still be questionalable.

Instead of quoting me platitudes about the wonderful future you envision for yourself how about telling me and anyone else interested in reading all of this just where do you get your particular interpetation from ? That is to say did a true Prophet tell your people about it ? Was it the founders of your sect that started it ? So how do you justify your position that in the 144,000 mentioned the JW sect has a monopoly ?

 

[may]

John Calvin said that God will save only so many souls, 144,000, and that nobody knows who they are but God and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Where on earth did he get this idea?

The apostle John wrote: "I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand." (Revelation 7:4) In the Bible, the phrase "those who were sealed" refers to a group of individuals who are chosen from among mankind to rule with Christ in heaven over the coming Paradise earth. (2 Corinthians 1:21, 22; Revelation 5:9, 10; 20:6) Their number, 144,000, is understood literally for several reasons. One is found in the immediate context of Revelation 7:4.​

After the apostle John was told in vision about this group of 144,000 individuals, he was shown another group. John describes this second group as "a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues." This great crowd refers to those who will survive the coming "great tribulation," which will destroy the present wicked world.—Revelation 7:9, 14.Also Jesus spoke of them as a little flock,
"Have no fear, little flock, because YOUR Father has approved of giving YOU the kingdom. luke 12;32
but he also said that he would have other sheep who would also listen to his vioce John 10;16 and these are the ones that will inherit the earth . but it will be only a little flock that go to heaven 144,000

 

[sojourner]

Of course, y'all realize that the number of 144,000 only works if you're in base 10. What if God really works in base 12, for example?

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

the 144,000 are the missionarys or angles to go forth and gather everyone up latter in the capter 7:9-10:

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

i thank there are a lot more saved than 144,000 but the 144,000 are choosen to do a work... then they bring countless people before the throne of God all of which are "saved" "Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne" reading futher:

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came aout of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

this passage more than likly referse to everyone that was there which "no man could number" so more than likly with wisdom of man more than just 144,000 will be saved... with wisdom from the holy ghost all the obay and give the Lord a sacrafic of the only thing we have to give that is ours the same shall be saved...

 

[BM5]

I see that May has ignored my request to post the origin of the belief of the JW's that they have a monopoly on the 144.000 as being members of their sect. So let anyone reading all this understand.