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2021 Census: England and Wales No Longer Christian-Majority Nations

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
This article is over a year old, but I have only recently come across it. According to the 2021 census of England and Wales, Christianity is no longer the majority religion in either country:

LONDON (AP) — Fewer than half the people in England and Wales consider themselves Christian, according to the most recent census — the first time a minority of the population has followed the country’s official religion.

Britain has become less religious — and less white — in the decade since the last census, figures from the 2021 census released Tuesday by the Office for National Statistics revealed.

Some 46.2% of the population of England and Wales described themselves as Christian on the day of the 2021 census, down from 59.3% a decade earlier. The Muslim population grew from 4.9% to 6.5% of the total, while 1.7% identified as Hindu, up from 1.5%.


What are your thoughts on this? Do you have any specific feelings about it?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I saw that when it was first released, it came as no surprise to me. Way back, the previous census in 2011 showed a sharp decline in those saying Christianity was their faith, the decline has obviously continued.
What was more telling (in my view) was that only 2% of the population regularly attended church.
I think it's time for the government to seriously consider their grace and favours to the christian churches, particularly the CofE. Either withdrawing them or sharing among all religions
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
I think it's time for the government to seriously consider their grace and favours to the christian churches, particularly the CofE. Either withdrawing them or sharing among all religions
What sort of grace and flavors does the Church of England enjoy that should be considered? How are their favors different from other Christian churches or the organizations of other religions?

Genuinely curious.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I saw that when it was first released, it came as no surprise to me. Way back, the previous census in 2011 showed a sharp decline in those saying Christianity was their faith, the decline has obviously continued.
What was more telling (in my view) was that only 2% of the population regularly attended church.
I think it's time for the government to seriously consider their grace and favours to the christian churches, particularly the CofE. Either withdrawing them or sharing among all religions

I can see good arguments both for and against having the British government treat the Church of England as any other religious institution.

On the one hand, I believe a secular democracy shouldn't favor any religious institutions over the rest, especially when the population is as religiously and ethnically diverse as it is in Britain.

On the other hand, the Church of England represents centuries of unbroken tradition and cultural heritage, and I can see why some people would want to preserve that. The UK is not a theocracy, and it already has freedom of religion. Would disestablishing the Church of England really provide more freedom of religion, or would it merely do away with a centuries-old hub of culture and national heritage for minimal (if any) gain in terms of freedom and equality?

I sympathize with both viewpoints and have no definitive answer to the question of disestablishment of the Church of England, myself.
 

Secret Chief

Very strong language
I saw that when it was first released, it came as no surprise to me. Way back, the previous census in 2011 showed a sharp decline in those saying Christianity was their faith, the decline has obviously continued.
What was more telling (in my view) was that only 2% of the population regularly attended church.
I think it's time for the government to seriously consider their grace and favours to the christian churches, particularly the CofE. Either withdrawing them or sharing among all religions
Pretty much this.
 

Secret Chief

Very strong language
What sort of grace and flavors does the Church of England enjoy that should be considered? How are their favors different from other Christian churches or the organizations of other religions?

Genuinely curious.
My two penneth:

The House of Lords (the half of parliament that gets to scrutinise/rubber stamp) intended legislation from the other half (The House of Commons) contains up to 26 bishops and archbishops. Not sure there's 26 Sikhs or Neo-Pagans similarly shoed in.
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
My two penneth:

The House of Lords (the half of parliament that gets to scrutinise/rubber stamp) intended legislation from the other half (The House of Commons) contains up to 26 bishops and archbishops. Not sure there's 26 Sikhs or Neo-Pagans similarly shoed in.
Does the Church (House of Lords) have influence on legislative decisions or are they more of a honorary entity in Parliament?
 
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RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
My two penneth:

The House of Lords (the half of parliament that gets to scrutinise/rubber stamp) intended legislation from the other half (The House of Commons) contains up to 26 bishops and archbishops. Not sure there's 26 Sikhs or Neo-Pagans similarly shoed in.


We have an entirely unelected 2nd chamber, its not just the bishops whose presence there is due to outmoded tradition. The whole House of Lords is an anachronism, but on balance Id as soon trust a bishop with scrutinising legislation, as the 14th Earl of Berkhampstead
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Does the Church have influence on legislative decisions or are they more of a honorary entity in Parliament?


The House of Lords doesn't directly influence legislation, their job is to scrutinise legislation passed in the House of Commons, before it passes into law. It sometimes happens that badly drafted bills are passed back to the commons with multiple recommendations for revision, but the Lords can only delay a bad bill, they cant prevent its passage.

More controversially, members of the Lords can hold ministerial posts, as is the case with David Cameron, who was made a Lord so he could be appointed Foreign Secretary.
 

Secret Chief

Very strong language
We have an entirely unelected 2nd chamber, its not just the bishops whose presence there is due to outmoded tradition. The whole House of Lords is an anachronism, but on balance Id as soon trust a bishop with scrutinising legislation, as the 14th Earl of Berkhampstead
Oh yes I know, I was just referencing the OP. I consider the whole system undemocratic, starting with FPTP.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I don't imagine Bishopthorpe Palace is a two-up two-down. :rolleyes:

I guess it depends on what size the rooms are.

download (8).jpeg
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
On the other hand, the Church of England represents centuries of unbroken tradition and cultural heritage, and I can see why some people would want to preserve that. The UK is not a theocracy, and it already has freedom of religion. Would disestablishing the Church of England really provide more freedom of religion, or would it merely do away with a centuries-old hub of culture and national heritage for minimal (if any) gain in terms of freedom and equality?

FWIW, by the same token, the UK also has a centuries-old tradition of suppressing religious denominations that don't hold political power.

Britain's tradition hasn't exactly been to hold onto a religion once it loses support.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
From all accounts, religion in the UK (barring the two Irelands, perhaps) just isn't much of a hot button issue, either in government nor in personal affairs.

I never like seeing governments offering religions favors of any kind out of their status as religions alone. That amounts to giving the State the power to decide what should count as a proper religion, and in practice opens the way to favor and disfavor specific ones among those recognized. Government initiatives should utterly ignore any claims of being a "religion" from any group.

The House of Lords is an odd duck, from what I understand. It holds real but usually not decisive power, and it is very much beyond the boundaries of representative democracy. I tend to think of it as a retirement home of sorts for politicians that some government decided to reward with lifetime status and salaries. Very much an anachronism, but also a living (if expensive) embodiment of traditions with some value as a source of advice. It has provided an outlet for voices that apparently just won't come from those who are aiming to be elected or re-elected, and in that role helped in the stability and democracy of the UK.

From the perspective of the people themselves, apparently the British largely consider religions, creeds and beliefs a personal matter that is rarely questioned outside of close proximity relationships or, oddly enough and going to the other extreme, in matters of very wide public interest. Apparently it is proper and perhaps necessary for members of the Royal Family to be members of the Church of England; literally illegal for certain members of it to be Catholics; and adherence to other creeds is perhaps seen as mainly a personal eccentricity of little consequence. The bloody conflicts between Protestants of the CoE and Catholics are well remembered (particularly in Ireland), but not much of an actual current political issue. Other religions do not seem to be politically relevant, except perhaps as a component of the larger issue of immigration.

The Church of Scotland is even less controversial; it has official acknowledgement and clearly it holds special significance for Scotland, but has far less privilege. By my reading of the current versions of relevant Wikipedia articles, about one in each three Scots considers himself a member, but only one in twenty actually attends services regularly.

It seems to me that both Churches are mainly preservers of heritage and tradition at this point, a situation that has both advantages and downsides, the later being mostly of a financial nature.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
My two penneth:

The House of Lords (the half of parliament that gets to scrutinise/rubber stamp) intended legislation from the other half (The House of Commons) contains up to 26 bishops and archbishops. Not sure there's 26 Sikhs or Neo-Pagans similarly shoed in.

Indeed. There is no way to maintain those privileges without deciding which religions "count" and which do not.

That is unavoidably an arbitrary call. Should there be as many roles for the Church of Scotland as for the Church of England? Should Catholicism be excluded? Are the British institutions even prepared to deal with religions and beliefs that they don't quite understand?
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
What sort of grace and flavors does the Church of England enjoy that should be considered? How are their favors different from other Christian churches or the organizations of other religions?

Genuinely curious.
26 CofE Bishops in our second chamber, the House of Lords. No Catholic, Muslim or non-believers.
Our Monarch is also the head of the CofE.
All state events, are led by the CofE.
 
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