30,000 feet of water?????

[1213]

the pressure and temperature of that much water under any land mass would have ripped the crust off the planet

Why do you think so?

 

[1213]

...Here is what you cannot explain, why do fossils only appear in particular layers with older ones below and younger ones behind? ...

They usually appear in order of how advanced they are, not in how old they are. Those that can escape, are in later layers and those that can't escape as well are stuck first. Also the place where they lived can have some influence to this.

... The fossil record is evidence that refutes the flood myth.

I think it proves the flood story. I don't think we would not have the fossils in any other way.

Scientists can and have counted the annual layers of snow deposition. Those dates can be confirmed by independent ways of dating.

I disagree with that.

... the only way for all of the endless evidence to exist is if God planted endless false evidence after the flood. ...

There is no false evidence. All the evidence shows the flood happened. It seems to me that you don't understand the difference between your belief or theory and what can actually be seen (evidence).

 

[1213]

No. All the things in nature that experts in relevant fields say would evidence such an event say that such a flood would leave abundant evidence -- and they find none.

I wouldn't call them experts. We have abundantly evidence.

Moreover, how such a flood could have occurred must needs invoke magic, as no conceivable natural mechanism exists.

No it doesn't.

 

[1213]

???? What and when was this first continent, and why would it have enough water to cover Earth's entire surface?

And where did it go after the flood abated?

Please look post #32, there is images of how it was.

If such an inundation did occur, where did the latent heat of codensation go?

What do you mean with "the latent heat of codensation"?

Most animals need food, water, waste disposal and specific conditions.

Yes, they could have been arranged easily, if the ark was built correctly, like in this image:

1) Rooms where animals could have been.
2) Rooms where the food could have been.
3) Water storage, could be filled with rain water coming down from the opening in the roof.
4) Opening in the roof.
5) Wood filling to make the Ark float.
6) Waste disposal opening. Would be flushed automatically by surrounding water.

Most animals could have moved to drink and eat on their own in this Ark. And most animals could have behaved well in this situation, not mess up wrong places. And I assume the larger animals were not yet fully grown, when they went to the ark, which would have made it easier to handle them.

This model was probably the model for Ziggurats later after the flood.

When did this flood occur? How would all modern bears evolve from a single species in <millions of years?

I don't know when the flood happened. But it seems to have been about 6000 years ago, because from that point we can see humans developing all kind of cultural things, that doesn't exist before that.

And I would not call it evolution, but devolution, or degeneration, because all changes comes from errors. However, in this case it seems the biggest differences are very small, similar to that we have African, Asian and Eurasian people. The differences between bears are about the same, I don't think it makes them different species.

Why do we find fossil records of multiple species of bears dating back to prehistoric, pre-flood times?

Do you have some good reason to believe the dating is correct?

When in the past couple billion years did the planet ever have a smooth surface?

I don't have any reason to believe in millions of years. If there would have been, earth would be smooth, because of the erosion.

 

[Audie]

Please look post #32, there is images of how it was.

What do you mean with "the latent heat of codensation"?

Yes, they could have been arranged easily, if the ark was built correctly, like in this image:
View attachment 99371
1) Rooms where animals could have been.
2) Rooms where the food could have been.
3) Water storage, could be filled with rain water coming down from the opening in the roof.
4) Opening in the roof.
5) Wood filling to make the Ark float.
6) Waste disposal opening. Would be flushed automatically by surrounding water.

Most animals could have moved to drink and eat on their own in this Ark. And most animals could have behaved well in this situation, not mess up wrong places. And I assume the larger animals were not yet fully grown, when they went to the ark, which would have made it easier to handle them.

This model was probably the model for Ziggurats later after the flood.

I don't know when the flood happened. But it seems to have been about 6000 years ago, because from that point we can see humans developing all kind of cultural things, that doesn't exist before that.

And I would not call it evolution, but devolution, or degeneration, because all changes comes from errors. However, in this case it seems the biggest differences are very small, similar to that we have African, Asian and Eurasian people. The differences between bears are about the same, I don't think it makes them different species.

Do you have some good reason to believe the dating is correct?

I don't have any reason to believe in millions of years. If there would have been, earth would be smooth, because of the erosion.

Of course you have no resson. You’ve no education.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, because things that can be seen in nature, support the idea.

That's not true. All the evidence we have is consistent with there being no global flood, but there's lots of evidence that's incompatible with a global flood.

Now... since the flood myth already takes as given the existence of a magical god, you have the built-in excuse that your god could have magically erased the evidence for the flood and magically forged evidence against it, but doing this would raise the question of why your god would commit this sort of forgery and deception.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, they could have been arranged easily, if the ark was built correctly, like in this image:

1) Rooms where animals could have been.
2) Rooms where the food could have been.
3) Water storage, could be filled with rain water coming down from the opening in the roof.
4) Opening in the roof.
5) Wood filling to make the Ark float.
6) Waste disposal opening. Would be flushed automatically by surrounding water.

Most animals could have moved to drink and eat on their own in this Ark. And most animals could have behaved well in this situation, not mess up wrong places. And I assume the larger animals were not yet fully grown, when they went to the ark, which would have made it easier to handle them.

There's a modern livestock ship called the Ocean Drover - formerly the Becrux - with capacity for 20,000 cattle or 60,000 goats. Its sides are open to the air to allow much more airflow in than what your ark design would allow, but even so, it's dependent on a massive ventilation system to supply breathing air to the livestock.

It's so dependent, in fact, that when a few of the ventilation fans failed on one of its early voyages, 900 cattle died.

MV Becrux : The Largest Livestock Carrier in the World

Marine Insight - The maritime industry guide.

www.marineinsight.com

The ark you're describing is a naïve fantasy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They usually appear in order of how advanced they are, not in how old they are. Those that can escape, are in later layers and those that can't escape as well are stuck first. Also the place where they lived can have some influence to this.

Nope. Non avian dinosaurs were very advanced. And a T-Rex would have been far faster than a sloth, but all sloth fossils are found higher than all dinosaur fossils.

I think it proves the flood story. I don't think we would not have the fossils in any other way.

And you just demonstrated that you do not even understand basic logic. We know how fossils form. Creationists cannot explain them. Waving your hands impotently is just an admission that you are wrong. Why are you so afraid to learn? You are only calling your own God a liar when you make claims that require scientific evidence and cannot provide any.

I disagree with that.

There you go admitting that you are wrong again. Saying that you disagree is not good enough. By not providing any scientific evidence for your claims you once admit that you are wrong and call your own God a liar in the process.

There is no false evidence. All the evidence shows the flood happened. It seems to me that you don't understand the difference between your belief or theory and what can actually be seen (evidence).

You are right. There is no false evidence. But you are wrong. All of the scientific evidence tells us that there was no flood.

So why do you keep calling God a liar?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I wouldn't call them experts. We have abundantly evidence.

No it doesn't.

No, you have no scientific evidence. I need to remind you that to date you have been too afraid to even learn what is and is not evidence.

Did you forget already how your amazing failure when it came to a hypothesis? You could not even come up with a valid test.

 

[1213]

Nope. Non avian dinosaurs were very advanced. And a T-Rex would have been far faster than a sloth, but all sloth fossils are found higher than all dinosaur fossils.

T-Rex may be fast, but not fast enough in the Biblical flood event.

One reason them to be in different layers is that mammals usually float, when drowned. Another reason is, they lived in different location. Flood water hit T-Rex first, and later a sloth. And if they are found next to each other in the sediments, it may be because of what happened in the later part of the whole flood event, when the water level decreased.

Creationists cannot explain them.

So why do you keep calling God a liar?

I have not done that.

 

[1213]

There's a modern livestock ship called the Ocean Drover - formerly the Becrux - with capacity for 20,000 cattle or 60,000 goats. Its sides are open to the air to allow much more airflow in than what your ark design would allow, but even so, it's dependent on a massive ventilation system to supply breathing air to the livestock.

Thanks, interesting boat. However, the ark plans I showed would not have had that same issue, because the structure is very different and the living spaces are not as closed for air to flow. Ventilation would be enough by modern standards. But, I am sorry, if it doesn't come clear from the drawing.

The ark you're describing is a naïve fantasy.

I would like to know even one good reason to think so.

 

[1213]

That's not true. All the evidence we have is consistent with there being no global flood, but there's lots of evidence that's incompatible with a global flood.

Please tell, what real evidence is incompatible with a global flood?

Now... since the flood myth already takes as given the existence of a magical god, you have the built-in excuse that your god could have magically erased the evidence for the flood and magically forged evidence against it, but doing this would raise the question of why your god would commit this sort of forgery and deception.

The flood event doesn't need any magic. If there is magic required, it would rather be in, how earth and life came to exist at the first place. There is no real evidence against the flood, and world is full of evidence that it really happened.

 

[Subduction Zone]

T-Rex may be fast, but not fast enough in the Biblical flood event.?

It does not matter. Is it faster than a sloth?

One reason them to be in different layers is that mammals usually float, when drowned. Another reason is, they lived in different location. Flood water hit T-Rex first, and later a sloth. And if they are found next to each other in the sediments, it may be because of what happened in the later part of the whole flood event, when the water level decreased.

Dinosaurs were even less dense. They had hollow bones then, just as they do now. That is another failure.

I have not done that.

Yes, you have. You are too afraid to learn how you have done so.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please tell, what real evidence is incompatible with a global flood?

Been there done that, bought the T-shirt.

The flood event doesn't need any magic. If there is magic required, it would rather be in, how earth and life came to exist at the first place. There is no real evidence against the flood, and world is full of evidence that it really happened.

Your flood needs magic. And a lying God. I need to remind you once again that you not only do not understand what is and what is not real evidence, you refuse to learn.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thanks, interesting boat. However, the ark plans I showed would not have had that same issue, because the structure is very different and the living spaces are not as closed for air to flow. Ventilation would be enough by modern standards. But, I am sorry, if it doesn't come clear from the drawing.

Sounds like it's the opposite of the drawing you gave, in fact.

I would like to know even one good reason to think so.

I just gave you one.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Please tell, what real evidence is incompatible with a global flood?

Heh... most of it?

The anthropological and archaeological evidence seems to me like a slam dunk: no matter when you decide to put the date of the flood, we have good records of people who lived straight through that era, apparently so oblivious to the fact that they and everyone else on the planet had been drowned that they just didn't notice and kept on living.

But if you pick a discipline that you find the most personally convincing (biology? Geology? Evidence for sources of the flood myth besides a literal global flood?), then we can explore some more of the evidence.

The flood event doesn't need any magic. If there is magic required, it would rather be in, how earth and life came to exist at the first place. There is no real evidence against the flood, and world is full of evidence that it really happened.

Can you give a single demonstrable fact that's incompatible with a global flood not happening? Just one.

 

[Argentbear]

Why do you think so?

Physics

 

[Argentbear]

They usually appear in order of how advanced they are, not in how old they are. Those that can escape, are in later layers and those that can't escape as well are stuck first. Also the place where they lived can have some influence to this.

That reminds me of seeing a "scientist" performing an experiment with a garden hose, a child's inflatable pool and plastic animal toys which included a number of dinosaur toys. He claimed his experiment proved that in he world wide flood the dinosaurs sank first in the flood because they are both bigger and more streamlined.

 

[Jimmy]

The way I see it, the Bible is a story meant to reveal the hidden spiritual truths about life.

 

[Mock Turtle]

The way I see it, the Bible is a story meant to reveal the hidden spiritual truths about life.

And if some take it literally?