30,000 feet of water?????

[Jimmy]

And if some take it literally?

That’s the way they’d see it.

 

[Mock Turtle]

That’s the way they’d see it.

Is that useful though, if they might by doing so cut themselves off from much current knowledge (from science), and where there is hardly anywhere to go as to progress - if they do literally believe what was written? The YEC beliefs following from this.

 

[Jimmy]

Is that useful though, if they might by doing so cut themselves off from much current knowledge (from science), and where there is hardly anywhere to go as to progress - if they do literally believe what was written? The YEC beliefs following from this.

Or maybe they’re one step closer to finding out something even deeper and that would ring even more true in their heart.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Or maybe they’re one step closer to finding out something even deeper and that would ring even more true in their heart.

Not if such beliefs hold them back. How would any get work in various branches of science if they had no belief in the veracity of such, for example? Wouldn't it be better to assume that when such texts were written, the people then just didn't have a great deal of what we would call knowledge, and hence what was written was simply an attempt at explaining life, our origins, etc., and if such might have been useful then, it surely isn't now, if by having such beliefs these tend to negate progress or simply cause one to live in a bubble?

 

[Jimmy]

Not if such beliefs hold them back. How would any get work in various branches of science if they had no belief in the veracity of such, for example? Wouldn't it be better to assume that when such texts were written, the people then just didn't have a great deal of what we would call knowledge, and hence what was written was simply an attempt at explaining life, our origins, etc., and if such might have been useful then, it surely isn't now, if by having such beliefs these tend to negate progress or simply cause one to live in a bubble?

I believe the world began in 1979 and will end before 2070and I still like science.

 

[1213]

I just gave you one.

Sorry, I don't find the post where you gave the reason. there seems to be only a silly answer that shows you don't seem to understand the drawing.

 

[1213]

Can you give a single demonstrable fact that's incompatible with a global flood not happening? Just one.

Large fossils and other large objects that got stuck in sediments (Polystrate fossil).

 

[1213]

Physics

It seems to me that you mix up magic with physics.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It seems to me that you mix up magic with physics.

That would be you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Large fossils and other large objects that got stuck in sediments (Polystrate fossil).

There are no polystrate fossils. That is a lie by creationists. They are all in one single stratum at the most.

You do not even know what a stratum is.

 

[Argentbear]

Large fossils and other large objects that got stuck in sediments (Polystrate fossil).

The first problem with trying to use polystrate fossils as evidence of a global flood is the fact that such fossil trees have intact root systems. You can't have huge amounts of earth being ripped up by the great floor (where else woudl all the material for the many sedimentary layers come from?) and having delicate and extensive root systems still in place. The second problem is that the polystrate tree fossils show signs of regenerative growth, that is after the tree is buried in sediment it continues to grow not something that would happen if buried under miles of water. We can observe this happening in many places that experience intermittent flooding like the Mississippi river delta.
the very process of how polystrate fossils are formed is evidence against a global flood.

 

[Argentbear]

It seems to me that you mix up magic with physics.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Large fossils and other large objects that got stuck in sediments (Polystrate fossil).

What about these do you think requires a global flood?

 

[Valjean]

The way I see it, the Bible is a story meant to reveal the hidden spiritual truths about life.

Then they should stick to values, meaning, purpose, propriety, &c and stop making claims of physical or historical fact.

 

[Valjean]

Or maybe they’re one step closer to finding out something even deeper and that would ring even more true in their heart.

What rings true in your heart is not reality. You'll find all sorts of contradictory deeper meanings ringing true amongst mental patients, for example.
In science there are all sorts of facts that not only don't ring true, but seem completely absurd or impossible -- yet they're true.
Don't trust your heart.

What we're talking about are the claims of testable, physical fact that Christians so zealously promulgate. Many are demonstrably wrong, yet Christians cling to them, regardless of evidence, on the authority of a 2,000 year old book of folklore.

 

[Jimmy]

What rings true in your heart is not reality. You'll find all sorts of contradictory deeper meanings ringing true amongst mental patients, for example.
In science there are all sorts of facts that not only don't ring true, but seem completely absurd or impossible -- yet they're true.
Don't trust your heart.

What we're talking about are the claims of testable, physical fact that Christians so zealously promulgate. Many are demonstrably wrong, yet Christians cling to them, regardless of evidence, on the authority of a 2,000 year old book of folklore.

Some people see the deeper meaning in the Bible. Some don’t.

 

[Valjean]

Large fossils and other large objects that got stuck in sediments (Polystrate fossil).

Polystrate fossil - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[blü 2]

Phase 1:
- Water started to erupt from "the fountains of great deep". Similarly as what we can now see for example in Iceland.

- Massive, not impossible, amount of water vapor was released, causing the heavy rain for long time period.
- Water flooding from the fault line (presumably mainly in the area of Mid Atlantic ridge) went to different directions and transferred all loose stuff on the ground. Bible tells there was dust covering earth in the beginning. Probably that dust was moved at the same time with the flood and it was formed to many sedimentary formations that can now be seen in opposite directions from the Mid Atlantic ridge.
- Heavy and long rain was one part of the flood event. It also flushed stuff on the ground, causing and mixing up own different layers.
- The broken original continent begun to sink. This cause compression on the edges of the continent and changes to the sediment layers that were formed by the flooding water.
Phase 2:
- rain and clouds cooled the planet and result was the ice age. Water begun to be collected to glaciers, causing the water level go down and exposing the dry land. Descending water level also caused changes to the fresh sediment layers.
- all sunken stuff were compressed by water, causing the water level to go further down. -> more changes to sediments through erosion. Many flood results would have been eroded from higher areas.
Phase 3:
- Melting glaciers, more smaller flood events to mix up the sediments and cause more changes to the surface of earth.
- Normal rain erosion further cleaning traces of the flood from upper areas, and burying them in lower areas. Fortunately there still are marine fossils on high mountain areas to show that the water indeed covered them at one point.

In Biblical point of view:
1) Everything was good at the beginning.
2) God was rejected and degeneration begun.
3) In earlier time there was not as much mutations, gene pool was "perfect", without errors.
4) At the flood time situation was still relatively good, much better than now.
5) After the flood, DNA are has continued to get weaker, more and more errors in copying. And more other changes also, for example from one bear couple, all modern bears.

That is why you can't see any bottleneck. There simply is no good reason why there should really be one.

You still haven't found that missing 1.1 billion cubic miles of water over and above the water presently on the earth so that you can cover the tops of the tallest mountains.

You still can't point to that universal geological flood layer all over all continents and island and the sea floor.

You still can't point to genetic bottlenecks in all species of land animals, all of them dating to the same date as the flood layer.

You still have no evidenced and reasoned case for a Genesis flood.

That strongly affirms the claim that it's a folktale, based, say, on a major flood in far antiquity on the Tigris or Euphrates. (The suggestion that it reflects the rise of water at the end of the last ice age some 11-12,000 years ago strikes me as unlikely).

 

[Valjean]

Some people see the deeper meaning in the Bible. Some don’t.

But what about the shallow meaning then; the actual, physical claims?
Why does the book make such fantastical and demonstrably wrong nuts-and bolts claims about physics, history, biology &al if it's trying to communicate philosophical precepts?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Polystrate fossil - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I do not think that he will read that. Sadly, though that article explains upright tree fossils very well it does not explain why "polystrate" is a bogus term. Even my Google spellchecker knows that it is an inappropriate term. To be polystrate they would have to go through more than one stratum. People often conflate lamina and stratum. A lamina is a single thin layer, where a stratum is usually a layer of rock that is all of the same sort, That means same, material, same age, same fossils. So called polystrate trees will tend to pass through many laminae, but they are usually found in single strata of sedimentary rocks: