Audie
Veteran Member
Ask not, lest thou be asked
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30,000 feet of water?????
- Thread starter Curious#1
- Start date
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Most people don't immediately jump to the "God did it! It was a miracle!" every time they don't know an answer.
How long does it usually take them?
How do we know that the reconstruction is truthful and not just imagination of a skull artist?
Would be nice to know what exactly is the difference.
What is the point of this site, if not to ask questions?
If God would never say or do anything, we would not have the Bible, nor this world and life. But, I understand if you don't believe. Luckily I don't think believing God is real, is the issue. The key thing in Biblical point of view is righteousness, because eternal life is promised only for righteous. Believing God is real, is not useful, if you re not righteous.
From each other.
If we go back in this, I think it was originally about different bear species and different dog breeds. I think the modern bear definitions are wrong and there is actually only one species of bears and several bear breeds, like in dogs also.
The differences between dog breeds are for example:
1) size
2) color
3) habits
By what I see, the differences between different bear "species" are the same. Can you show some other greater difference between bear breeds?
By what I know, this is what we have of the "Australopithecus afarensis". Without the artists imagination, I don't see any meaningful difference to modern humans.
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TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Sorry, your question still doesn't make any sense.
Both asians and africans are Homo Sapiens. No speciation events separates them because they are the same species.
And why do you think these "definitions" are wrong, other then them not fitting your a priori religious beliefs about impossible global floods and impossible not-even-sea-worthy mythical boats?
Polar bears and black bears, for example, diverged some 1 to 2 million years ago and have diverged genetically so much that it's almost impossible for them to interbreed, and if it succeeds anyway, the chance of having viable off spring is incredibly low.
Dog breeds are largely artificial as they were breed by humans through artificial selection and while superficially dogs can look much more different from eachother (the phenotype), this is not actually reflected in their genetic makeup (the genotype).
Dog breeds can interbreed.
In some cases this perhaps can't be done naturally, but one has to remember that many dog breeds aren't actually "natural" and in fact couldn't even survive in the wild on their own. There are even dog breeds out there that can no longer reproduce naturally at all. This is for DIFFERENT reasons then black bears vs polar bears. This has nothing to do with genetic incompatibility, but rather with artificial selection breeding for certain physical traits while ignoring health and functionality. Their anatomical features regarding reproductive success have been disregarded in those selection processes because breeders were more interested in fur or size or what-have-you.
Dog breeds are all essentially the same species.
Bears are not.
Habitat, diet, gestation, genetics.
Genetic to the point of incompatibility to interbreed due to having diverged from one another for over a million years.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
You don't know much it seems.
You posted one fossil.
We have hundreds of australopethicus specimen. Some more complete then others.
You would see meaningful difference if you weren't so closed minded and educated in paleontology, comparative anatomy, etc.
From the looks of it, you wouldn't even notice the difference between a fore arm bone of a human and the equivalent in a dog.
Here's a funny picture:
Guess what the one on the right is without looking it up
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
"artists"?
Maybe you should look into how such reconstructions are actually done.
Neanderthal DNA has been sequenced.
Ask a geneticist.
I guess you missed my point. I didn't suggest that you not ask questions. I suggest that you ask AI rather than RF members. They seem happy to try to help you, but why bother them when you don't need to?
A better use of your time and resources (and theirs) is to do your own investigating. The AI answers may contain terms you'll need to look up separately. Do your best to understand its answers to you BEFORE going to others for additional help not provided by AI.
There are four things that I've identified that a higher education can provide. It's the fourth one of interest here:
[1] A data base of facts about math, science, history, medicine, law, etc..
[2] A profession including practical training
[3] Critical thinking skills
[4] How to continue learning independently when formal education has ended.
AI is an amazing recent gift. Please learn to use it if you have any interest at all in learning. It's like having a Magic 8-Ball or Ouija Board, except that it actually provides useful answers. Even if one has no interest in academic education, one might be interesting in asking it theological questions.
Creationists in my experience come in two principal varieties. The majority are sealioners. They ask questions as distractions with no interest in the answers. They are representing falsely that they respect reason applied to evidence, that their opinions involve that process, and that they want some of that from you, but they don't look at links and so unsurprisingly, never make progress, but also don't see learning science as progress anyway. I spend little time answering their questions and simply refer them to AI these days. They don't go there, but that's fine.
The others are more sincere, but they also learn little or nothing. I am more willing to work with them, but I don't see what referring them to AI first isn't a better approach. The few who do so and return with new ideas that need clarification can be addressed at that time, and the rest can be disregarded if they're not sincere enough to make any effort on their own.
I asked AI, "How do we know that forensic facial reconstruction from fossil skulls is reliable and accurate?" It provided an answer. You could have done that, but here you are again asking anonymous Internet sources questions that you could be answering without them. Do first that to demonstrate a sincere thirst for knowledge, and even I will engage you as a serious and sincere student and try to help you sort out any residual areas of confusion.
Google was also helpful. I searched, "examples of facial reconstruction forensics and actual photos" and saw examples of the forensic predictions juxtaposed beside subsequently acquired photos. Although sometimes the images aren't good enough for identification of a specific individual, there's never any difficulty determining their species. The hair style and color may be lucky guesses in this example, but clearly, this was not an image of Lucy or Homo habilis:
Let's see what you can do on your own. If you do nothing, then there is no reason to answer your questions raised here.
We don't need artists for that. Lucy's bones are shorter than modern man because Lucy was a smaller animal. She combines the pelvis and skull of a bipedal ape like man with the much smaller cranial capacity of a chimp - about 1/3 the volume. This how we know that standing upright preceded big brains in human evolution.
If anybody is interested in the differences in pelvises and skulls as we progress from tetrapods like dogs to semi-upright brachiators like chimps and gorillas to fully upright animals like man and kangaroos, here's a nice treatment of that: What is the evidence that australopithecines were bipedal?
I guessed a horse hoof. A reverse search of the photo revealed that it is an elephant: Elephant foot and foot care – Upali.ch
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
I absolutely love that cross section.
First time ever I saw that a long time ago, it literally blew my mind.
Audie
Veteran Member
The people at for example, LAPD forensics are very
skillful at reproducing a recognizable reconstruction from
a skull, and solving crimes.
why don’t you try educating yourself?
and apply some of your otherwise boundless
skepticism to yourself and your silly ideas?
The problem is the authors, compilers, and Church Fathers of the Pentateuch, and the Bible in general believed it was literal history This is the plain reading of the Bible and reason some version a literal view of the Bible dominated Christianity up until 18th century. Even today up to 50% Christians and by far most Muslims consider the Pentateuch in some way literal history, and reject science.
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Intentional ignorance of the sciences of evolution does not help your argument,
Simply take a college level course of comparative anatomy and your questions will be answered, Actually a little google search at the high school level English would address your intentional ignorance of science.
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If you consider the Bible righteous please explain the ethnic cleansing of tribes by Hebrews of other tribes including women and children, and the ethnic and religious cleansing of Jews by Christians in the history of Christianity, and the vicious tribal wars and slaughter between Jews, Christians and Muslims since including the slaughter of the Hamas War today Include the wide spread anti- Semitism and violence against followers of other religions in the West today These conflicts and violence are based on the Pentateuch standards of tribal war and violence against those that believe differently. Read Martin Luther's Jews and Their Lies, based on scripture.
There is nothing "truly" righteous here, except for the members of the tribe.
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The bible is only one of the world's religious books. They were all written by humans, and express views and values of their time and place. Like all ancient documents they deserve respect and understanding, but that's all.
I agree. If people treat each other with decency, respect, inclusion and common sense, it doesn't matter whether they hold supernatural beliefs or not ─ they've got the essentials right.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Because if one keeps oneself willfully ignorant than one can say "I see no good reason . . . " without openly lying.
Creationists tend to use willful ignorance as a defense mechanism.
By what is said in the Bible, death is the wage of sin. Evil people are destined to die. I have no problem with that, if God is the one who decides. He has given life and therefore has the right to decide how long life He gives. He would not have to give eternal life for anyone. And I think it is good, if He doesn't allow evil to continue forever.
The problem with this is, has some people the right to end other persons life. For example if someone attacks and the gets killed, I think it is the attackers fault and he got what he deserved and I don't think it is wrong to defend oneself, although I think best would be to live by the example of Jesus.
I believe in the case when Jews killed others, it was accepted when the others were evil. And I don't think it ever has been just because some believe/think differently, that is something western secular governments tends to do (for example to Gonzalo Lira).
So, I think righteous reason is, if the other is evil and violent. However, it may be difficult sometimes to judge correctly how it really is. I believe that is why Jesus told that his disciples (="Christians") should not judge, nor be violent.