$5 Million Fine for Classroom Discussions on Race? In Tennessee, This Is the New Reality

[sun rise]

Meanwhile the right is going much much further in making free speech illegal - subject to destructive fines and more.

$5 Million Fine for Classroom Discussions on Race? In Tennessee, This Is the New Reality

Tennessee aims to levy fines starting at $1 million and rising to $5 million on school districts each time one of their teachers is found to have “knowingly violated” state restrictions on classroom discussions about systemic racism, white privilege, and sexism, according to guidance proposed by the state’s department of education late last week.

Teachers could also be disciplined or lose their licenses for teaching that the United States is inherently racist or sexist or making a student feel “guilt or anguish” because of past actions committed by their race or sex.
...
it does not elaborate on what specifically school districts are banned from teaching, as many teacher advocates had hoped. Instead, it cites 11 broad concepts that teachers can’t teach or use materials to promote. For example, students can’t be told that they are “inherently privileged, racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or subconsciously,” or bear responsibility for past actions committed by members of their race or sex.

 

[Altfish]

Meanwhile the right is going much much further in making free speech illegal - subject to destructive fines and more.

$5 Million Fine for Classroom Discussions on Race? In Tennessee, This Is the New Reality

Tennessee aims to levy fines starting at $1 million and rising to $5 million on school districts each time one of their teachers is found to have “knowingly violated” state restrictions on classroom discussions about systemic racism, white privilege, and sexism, according to guidance proposed by the state’s department of education late last week.

Teachers could also be disciplined or lose their licenses for teaching that the United States is inherently racist or sexist or making a student feel “guilt or anguish” because of past actions committed by their race or sex.
...
it does not elaborate on what specifically school districts are banned from teaching, as many teacher advocates had hoped. Instead, it cites 11 broad concepts that teachers can’t teach or use materials to promote. For example, students can’t be told that they are “inherently privileged, racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or subconsciously,” or bear responsibility for past actions committed by members of their race or sex.

And I thought it was the left who were supposed to be Woke; and surpressing free speech.
When all along it is the right

 

[SigurdReginson]

Well, there goes teaching about the reconstruction era. Not surprising... My Southern Baptist education made no mention of it, though it was private education. The fact this is happening in the public education sphere is a bit disconcerting.

 

[AlexanderG]

Hm, and I thought conservatives were all about "academic freedom" a few years ago?

It's almost as if they happily switch between opposing principles from one day to the next, as long as the current argument promotes their own power and influence. Almost as if their only true principle is power.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, there goes teaching about the reconstruction era. Not surprising... My Southern Baptist education made no mention of it, though it was private education. The fact this is happening in the public education sphere is a bit disconcerting.

Yeah, what I was taught when I was one of them, it would pass thos dumb law but it's not good stuff to learn (like apartheid Africa being a great thing and the local black people are just greedy and ungrateful).
Reconstruction did paint the South as the victim, as those states should have been left alone to sort their own stuff out free of Federal overreach.

 

[Secret Chief]

I still reckon it's a good idea to have just the one catch-all thread called something like The Latest Mental Stuff From The US.
It could be a sticky.

 

[Aštra’el]

The fine is not for “any discussion regarding race” as the topic creator knowingly and dishonestly declares. Just those discussions that encourage directing shame and hatred towards all white Americans (or any race), especially whose awesome ancestors conquered this land and built a world that all Americans now inhabit and reap the benefits of, where we can enjoy far more freedoms than most of the world.

However, I have become more and more convinced that people are just not worthy of the rights afforded to them here. One, because we are human, and nobody deserves anything. More importantly though, two, because so many people are increasingly disrespectful towards each other and completely unappreciative of so much of what they do have here. They choose to believe and behave as if nobody can understand their suffering when all have suffered. They choose to believe and behave as if equality is possible when every individual possesses his or her own unique strengths and weaknesses, and personal histories and family legacies. They choose to believe and behave as if they are so oppressed when they live freely in one of the greatest countries ever to exist.

I am not opposed to these fines. America has already become so divisive. If people can even reluctantly just accept each others’ differences and focus on their own lives moving forward- and the lives of those they care about- through willpower, hard work, personal responsibility, resilience through the hard times, and better decisions each and every day, they can build so much better futures for themselves and their descendants.

Some family legacies began long ago. Any can begin now.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Hm, and I thought conservatives were all about "academic freedom" a few years ago?

It's almost as if they happily switch between opposing principles from one day to the next, as long as the current argument promotes their own power and influence. Almost as if their only true principle is power.

conservatives are all about whatever and whoever supports their backwards worldview

anyway, they probably take their orders from the kkk in tennesse

 

[danieldemol]

I have become more and more convinced that people are just not worthy of the rights afforded to them here. One, because we are human, and nobody deserves anything.

What a total non-seqitur. It is because we are human that we are deserving human rights.

But I reckon you'd be the first to complain if your rights were taken away with the excuse given because your human.

In my opinion.

 

[Aštra’el]

What a total non-seqitur. It is because we are human that we are deserving human rights.

But I reckon you'd be the first to complain if your rights were taken away with the excuse given because your human.

In my opinion.

Nobody deserves anything. I do not deserve anything. I try to be grateful and appreciative for what I do have. Like an idiot I spent a lot of my life taking things for granted... but that changed when I watched someone really close to me die a horrible death. I do not take things for granted as much anymore. Now I can better understand how precious things around me really are.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The fine is not for “any discussion regarding race” as the topic creator knowingly and dishonestly declares. Just those discussions that encourage directing shame and hatred towards white Americans and their awesome ancestors who conquered this land and build a world that all Americans now inhabit and reap the benefits of, where we can enjoy far more freedoms than most of the world.

See? That's why lumping all of us whites in together is bull****. My ancestors weren't here when that was going on, unless you want to count my line of Cherokee.
And, yes, my ancestors were pretty awesome. They fiercely stood against Rome, sacked it once, and used the same tenacity and ferocity to fight against the Anglo-Saxons and English. And, just as the Romans, the English had to resort to treachery to defeat my ancestors. The Danes were worms. But the Goths contributed to Rome's fall, so good for them.

If people can even reluctantly just accept each others’ differences and focus on their own lives moving forward- and the lives of those they care about- through willpower, hard work, personal responsibility, resilience through the hard times, and better decisions each and every day, they can build so much better futures for themselves and their descendants.

You say that, but you're erasing the differences, backgrounds, and ancestry of lots of European-Americans. And if you can't accept or realize we are different, how are you going to just accept the differences of others?

 

[Aštra’el]

See? That's why lumping all of us whites in together is bull****.

I’m obviously not. You are just being dramatic.

For the record, some of my ancestors conquered this country, others were from Germany, Russia, Mexico, and Iraq. I value all of them. My ancestors were here when this country formed, my other ancestors arrived much later. They are all awesome in my eyes.

You say that, but you're erasing the differences, backgrounds, and ancestry of lots of European-Americans. And if you can't accept or realize we are different, how are you going to just accept the differences of others?

I’m not, and I wouldn’t even know how to do any of that. You just freaked out when I didn’t acknowledge the obvious fact that some whites arrived after this land was conquered, as if that wasn’t some well known fact that goes without saying. It has nothing to do with anything other than direct the conversation away from the rest of what was was being said.

Besides... Critical Race Theory doesn’t care if you are early to the show white or late to the party white. White is white and you are still the racist oppressor benefiting from a world designed specifically for people who share your skin color, and any pain, suffering and discrimination you have faced as a human being or even as a trans person allegedly does not compare in the slightest to the everyday struggles of those whose ancestors were slaves.

Critical Race Theory is absolute trash, and many people white and black alike can see that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I’m obviously not. You are just being dramatic.

For the record, some of my ancestors conquered this country, others were from Germany, Russia, Mexico, and Iraq. I value all of them. My ancestors were here when this country formed, my other ancestors arrived much later. They are all awesome in my eyes.



I’m not. You just freaked out when I didn’t acknowledge the obvious fact that some whites arrived after this land was conquered. This has nothing to do with anything other than direct the conversation away from the rest of what was was being said.

Besides, Critical Race Theory doesn’t care if you are early to the show white or late to the party white. White is white and you are still the racist oppressor benefiting from a world designed specifically for people who share your skin color, and any pain, suffering and discrimination you have faced as a human being or even as a trans person allegedly does not compare in the slightest to the everyday struggles of those whose ancestors were slaves.

Critical Race Theory is absolute trash, and many people white and black alike can see that.

Except your own words did include all white Americans as a large, homogeneous group. That it's "white Americans and their awesome ancestors." That too is saying "white is white." But that just isn't the case, and it was apparently your ancestors who thought it appropriate to hang up signs that read "no Irish need apply," as well as being some Irish and Scots as slaves when they brought the Africans.
Really, I don't like any ideologies or beliefs that assume we're all the same based on skin color.

 

[Aštra’el]

Except your own words did include all white Americans as a large, homogeneous group.

I’ve already elaborated to clear up your inaccurate interpretation, and edited a couple words in my first post so that you might better understand the intended message.

Really, I don't like any ideologies or beliefs that assume we're all the same based on skin color.

Me neither. At least we can agree on that.

 

[Stevicus]

Meanwhile the right is going much much further in making free speech illegal - subject to destructive fines and more.

$5 Million Fine for Classroom Discussions on Race? In Tennessee, This Is the New Reality

Tennessee aims to levy fines starting at $1 million and rising to $5 million on school districts each time one of their teachers is found to have “knowingly violated” state restrictions on classroom discussions about systemic racism, white privilege, and sexism, according to guidance proposed by the state’s department of education late last week.

Teachers could also be disciplined or lose their licenses for teaching that the United States is inherently racist or sexist or making a student feel “guilt or anguish” because of past actions committed by their race or sex.
...
it does not elaborate on what specifically school districts are banned from teaching, as many teacher advocates had hoped. Instead, it cites 11 broad concepts that teachers can’t teach or use materials to promote. For example, students can’t be told that they are “inherently privileged, racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or subconsciously,” or bear responsibility for past actions committed by members of their race or sex.

Has this been reviewed by any kind of legal scholar? Is it even constitutional? I suppose they might be thinking the current Supreme Court would be more friendly to this kind of thing, but this doesn't seem like it passes constitutional muster. I'd like to see how this is played in the courts.

The fine seems ridiculous, just on its face. Were they drinking too much of that fine Tennessee whiskey when they came up with this one?

Sorry, Tennessee.

 

[Shaul]

Well, there goes teaching about the reconstruction era. Not surprising... My Southern Baptist education made no mention of it, though it was private education. The fact this is happening in the public education sphere is a bit disconcerting.

If you read the actual law you would know it certainly allows for teaching about racist acts in history and about the Reconstruction era.

 

[Shaul]

The law in Tennessee allows the discussion of race and racism in the state schools. What it does do is state that no school personnel during such discussions can say that any race is superior or inferior to others or more racist than other races.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Meanwhile the right is going much much further in making free speech illegal - subject to destructive fines and more.

$5 Million Fine for Classroom Discussions on Race? In Tennessee, This Is the New Reality

Tennessee aims to levy fines starting at $1 million and rising to $5 million on school districts each time one of their teachers is found to have “knowingly violated” state restrictions on classroom discussions about systemic racism, white privilege, and sexism, according to guidance proposed by the state’s department of education late last week.

Teachers could also be disciplined or lose their licenses for teaching that the United States is inherently racist or sexist or making a student feel “guilt or anguish” because of past actions committed by their race or sex.
...
it does not elaborate on what specifically school districts are banned from teaching, as many teacher advocates had hoped. Instead, it cites 11 broad concepts that teachers can’t teach or use materials to promote. For example, students can’t be told that they are “inherently privileged, racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or subconsciously,” or bear responsibility for past actions committed by members of their race or sex.

I have to ask. Who's the person that decides if something is worthy of fining or not?


Sounds like a can of worms here just waiting to be opened.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The law in Tennessee allows the discussion of race and racism in the state schools. What it does do is state that no school personnel during such discussions can say that any race is superior or inferior to others or more racist than other races.

I wonder if Critical Race Theory has anything to do with this?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

However, I have become more and more convinced that people are just not worthy of the rights afforded to them here. One, because we are human, and nobody deserves anything.

I think, as an american, that this is somewhat antithetical to the project, though humility is useful at the same time. It is often optimal, I think, to behave as if you deserve nothing. That way if you get nothing, you will be fine. Arguably, we are stretching out our finite resources anyway, and there is less of anything to get

But at the same time, you probably should think you deserve 'something,' because if you don't, there are limits that can be imposed on you, that you will consider inhumane. Certain regulations already make life harder than it needs to be, and are not cost effective. For example, if a moral, working person is living in a van, or living on raw land they own, and not hooking it up to a grid, then taxpayers are paying the government to shuffle them around when they are breaking the social code. Your hard life then gets harder

What I started to learn by reading Thoreau, is that in nascent america, property barely existed, but only the raw material for property existed. So what exactly did thoreau deserve, you might ask.. Technically, in western economic eyes, he didn't actually consume anything, because there was no mechanism for perceiving what he consumed. Today, the man would be homeless, and shuffled around by authorities. The 'rights' he expressed in the mid 1800's could not be expressed now, because to really express rights, you need unperceived material excess

Now we are in an age where they are erecting biomass plants to burn down forests, so clearly most material is perceived as property. Then you might come to understand that the perception of space and materials as property, will start to breed regulation. It's not really about 'what you deserve,' it becomes about how much there is there for you to have, in any case, in addition to how much you are compelled to socially participate (hooking up to the grid , living in a van being nominally legal)