52% of US Voters are embarrassed by Trump

[Revoltingest]

So, I guess you missed the whole housing market bubble that caused the great recession? It can't be blamed completely on Bush, but it certainly wasn't Obama's doing. He was not in office when all of the causes of the great recession caused the market to fall apart.

It can't be blamed in the least on either Bush or Obama.
The bubble (as I've often droned on & on about) was created over many decades by policies of both parties.
And these same policies continue today, eg, tax subsidies, monetary policy (institutionalized inflation), zoning restrictions against multi-family housing.
There'll be another burst.
I just won't predict when because it's dependent upon unpredictable external factors, eg, major terrorist attack.

 

[leibowde84]

It can't be blamed in the least on either Bush or Obama.
The bubble (as I've often droned on & on about) was created over many decades by policies of both parties.
And these same policies continue today, eg, tax subsidies, monetary policy (institutionalized inflation).
There'll be another burst.
I just won't predict when because it's dependent upon unpredictable external factors, eg, major terrorist attack.

I agree, in part. Deregulation of the financial industry was really the cause, but Bush could have done something to curb the effects. By the time Obama came to office it was too late.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

How could you possibly blame Obama for the great recession when it started in 2007?!

Here's what actually caused the great recession, starting with the subprime mortgage crisis in 2007 (BEFORE OBAMA TOOK OFFICE!). Causes of the Great Recession - Wikipedia

Many factors directly and indirectly caused the Great Recession (which started in 2007 with the US subprime mortgage crisis), with experts and economists placing different weights on particular causes.

Major causes of the initial subprime mortgage crisis and following recession include: International trade imbalances and lax lending standards contributing to high levels of developed country household debt and real-estate bubbles that have since burst; U.S. government housing policies; and limited regulation of non-depository financial institutions. Once the recession began, various responses were attempted with different degrees of success. These included fiscal policies of governments; monetary policies of central banks; measures designed to help indebted consumers refinance their mortgage debt; and inconsistent approaches used by nations to bail out troubled banking industries and private bondholders, assuming private debt burdens or socializing losses.

One narrative describing the causes of the crisis begins with the significant increase in savings available for investment during the 2000–2007 period when the global pool of fixed-income securities increased from approximately $36 trillion in 2000 to $80 trillion by 2007. This "Giant Pool of Money" increased as savings from high-growth developing nations entered global capital markets. Investors searching for higher yields than those offered by U.S. Treasury bonds sought alternatives globally.[1]

So not withstanding various theories of underlying causes pre-dating the recession, the actual recession didn't 'start' till the summer of '08, when Obama took a lead in the polls.

I had my house for sale at the time,as well as working in the industry, so I was very keenly aware of what the market was doing, especially in housing. Bush explicitly warned against these exact problems with government housing programs, so yes I blame him to the extent of not doing something about it, but at that time it was considered an evil republican attack on poor people.

Again the record plunge in the market itself took place when Obama's election was confirmed, the very 2 days the market opened after election results. You honestly concede no connection here?? complete coincidence?

 

[leibowde84]

So not withstanding various theories of underlying causes pre-dating the recession, the actual recession didn't 'start' till the summer of '08, when Obama took a lead in the polls.

Not true. The recession began in 2007 with the subprime mortgage crisis. It was well under way by 2008.

Again the record plunge in the market itself took place when Obama's election was confirmed, the very 2 days the market opened after election results. You honestly concede no connection here?? complete coincidence?

The plunge was caused by factors already well under way by even 2007.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree, in part. Deregulation of the financial industry was really the cause, but Bush could have done something to curb the effects. By the time Obama came to office it was too late.

No...federal regulation of finance (& other things too) was the cause (not deregulation) .
Government exacerbated the bubble with regulation which caused price inflation above the utility value.....
- Enforced lending to risky borrowers (Community Reinvestment Act) created additional instability.
- Subsidizing highly leveraged loans (PMI)
- Capital gains tax exclusion for homes
- Deductability of mortgage loan interest & property taxes
- Denying renters the tax advantages afforded property owners encouraged home ownership.

Government also hindered recovery with regulation.....
- Prohibiting renegotiated loans with Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac (fed gov created & controlled lenders)
- Requiring lenders to foreclose upon troubled borrowers, rather than renegotiating (eg, RBS, Citizens NA, Std Federal)
- Taxing the borrower on all forgiven principal & interest due in renegotiated loans, a burden which made it impossibly expensive for many to refinance. So the went bankrupt instead.
- Unnecessary closing costs for refinanced loans
- By encouraging home ownership (not a very liquid asset) over renting, our workforce became immobile
when their properties became under water (negative equity), & they were unable to move to where jobs were.
- Bailing out lenders (not borrowers) included no incentive assist borrowers.
- Obama's troubled borrower programs excluded borrowers who had less than perfect payment records, ie, it excluded the very borrowers it ostensibly targeted.

Local regulators contributed to the bubble....
- Zoning laws discriminated against tiny homes & multi-unit buildings, thereby limiting supply of cheaper homes.
- Zoning laws & housing codes limited occupancy per square foot, which increases cost.
- Governing boards (usually city councils) exacted expensive concessions from multi-unit builders (eg, donating units to government), thereby spreading the cost over fewer units.

I experienced this all first hand, since it was my business (lender, borrower, developer, investor, landlord, property manager & broker).
Thru adequate negotiating & brilliant dumb luck, I avoided bankruptcy, & survived.
This is why I'm so annoyingly sanctimonious & condescending about it.

 

[leibowde84]

So not withstanding various theories of underlying causes pre-dating the recession, the actual recession didn't 'start' till the summer of '08, when Obama took a lead in the polls.

I had my house for sale at the time,as well as working in the industry, so I was very keenly aware of what the market was doing, especially in housing. Bush explicitly warned against these exact problems with government housing programs, so yes I blame him to the extent of not doing something about it, but at that time it was considered an evil republican attack on poor people.

Again the record plunge in the market itself took place when Obama's election was confirmed, the very 2 days the market opened after election results. You honestly concede no connection here?? complete coincidence?

All in all, the point is this: Trump blaming Obama for the current situation in Syria does no good. The Obama Administration blaming Bush didn't do any good either.

Trump needs to grow up and stop blaming other people and actually do something. He hasn't done anything substantial yet. He failed on healthcare reform, he failed on the travel ban, he hasn't done anything about North Korea or Russia, and now he can't do anything but place blame on others when it comes to Syria.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not true. The recession began in 2007 with the subprime mortgage crisis. It was well under way by 2008.

The plunge was caused by factors already well under way by even 2007.

No....it began on 9.11.01.
That is when I saw my own tenants going out of business or downsizing, with many workers canned.
Venture capital dried up, & the companies they funded folded. Others were skittish because
business volume declined (frightened customers). So they moved into smaller units as they
jettisoned employees. As things continued downhill, twas later when lenders like Countrywide
foundered. This last thing is what economists noticed, but it was only a symptom, & not the cause.
Why?
I think it's because economists measure that which is easy to measure.
They can look at things like unemployment numbers, stock prices, & giant corporations.
But they don't see hard to measure things like the reasons behind falling commercial
rents, downsized smaller companies, venture capital flow, shuttered start-ups, etc.
Only leasing agents & landlords see that picture clearly.

 

[Falvlun]

Again the record plunge in the market itself took place when Obama's election was confirmed, the very 2 days the market opened after election results. You honestly concede no connection here?? complete coincidence?

Are you implying that a massive amount of distrust in Obama caused the Great Recession?

This completely ignores basically everything that we know about the causes of the recession and the housing bubble, much of the foundation of which was laid a decade prior.

If you set a ball rolling down the plank and then change the overseer half way through, is it the new overseer's fault that the ball is still rolling downhill?

You are mistaking correlation with causation.

 

[metis]

The main cause of the Great Recession was over-speculation within both the banking, insurance, and shadow-banking systems, thus taking risks to try and maximize profits, and both parties contributed to this debacle. The collapse started before Obama took office, but fortunately he took the advice of Bernanke to gradually work our way out of it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

52% of US Voters are embarrassed by Trump

So what is wrong with the other 48%

 

[Revoltingest]

52% of US Voters are embarrassed by Trump

So what is wrong with the other 48%

Why would I be embarrassed by what someone else does?
My identity & pride are unrelated to him, his antics, or what ferriners think.
He's only the President.

Considering the question more.....if I were embarrassed by presidents,
it would've been very difficult to endure Nixon, barfing Bush Sr, & most
of all Bill Clinton. Ew.

 

[leibowde84]

Why would I be embarrassed by what someone else does?
My identity & pride are unrelated to him, his antics, or what ferriners think.
He's only the President.

Considering the question more.....if I were embarrassed by presidents,
it would've been very difficult to endure Nixon, barfing Bush Sr, & most
of all Bill Clinton. Ew.

Bill Clinton was awesome. If you were married to Hillary Clinton, wouldn't you cheat on her every opportunity you got?

 

[Revoltingest]

Bill Clinton was awesome. If you were married to Hillary Clinton, wouldn't you cheat on her every opportunity you got?

You won't believe my answer.

Really....you won't.

It would be immoral to betray my wife's & country's trust.

 

[leibowde84]

You won't believe my answer.

Really....you won't.

It would be immoral to betray my wife's & country's trust.

Meh ... I couldn't care less whether any president cheats on their lesbian wife.

 

[Revoltingest]

Meh ... I couldn't care less whether any president cheats on their lesbian wife.

Lesbian or not (& I think not), she was clearly wounded by his repeated & flagrant infidelity.
But I wasn't embarrassed by it.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Why would I be embarrassed by what someone else does?
My identity & pride are unrelated to him, his antics, or what ferriners think.
He's only the President.

Considering the question more.....if I were embarrassed by presidents,
it would've been very difficult to endure Nixon, barfing Bush Sr, & most
of all Bill Clinton. Ew.

"Why would I be embarrassed by what someone else does?"

Have some national pride would you.

That is the problem with people, they are too apathetic, too willing to throw up their hands and say, "Well it is not my fault and not my problem", just looking to pass the buck. We are in this mess together, the problems of our nation are shared problems. Anyone with any sense of national pride should be embarrassed when the President they elected makes an *** out of himself.

 

[Revoltingest]

"Why would I be embarrassed by what someone else does?"

Have some national pride would you.

I do.
But I'm in the Goldilocks zone.

That is the problem with people, they are too apathetic, too willing to throw up their hands and say, "Well it is not my fault and not my problem", just looking to pass the buck. We are in this mess together, the problems of our nation are shared problems. Anyone with any sense of national pride should be embarrassed when the President they elected makes an *** out of himself.

Apathy is different from rational emotional detachment.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Bill Clinton was awesome. If you were married to Hillary Clinton, wouldn't you cheat on her every opportunity you got?

What the hell?

 

[Revoltingest]

What the hell?

I assumed he was joking.

 

[Stevicus]

Bill Clinton was awesome. If you were married to Hillary Clinton, wouldn't you cheat on her every opportunity you got?

Maybe he shouldn't have married her in the first place.