9/12- The United States of America's Response to Terrorism

[libre]

Over the past month I have come to realize that Hamas's attack on Israel has become Israel's 9/11.
It seems that after some reading I'm far from the first one to come to this conclusion, from the Israeli representative to the UN to every other American editorial.

Yes, This Is Israel’s 9/11

Both the U.S. and Israel were stunned to experience the ultraviolence they mete out to others.

theintercept.com

Israel Must Not React Stupidly

If this is Israel’s 9/11, it can learn from America’s mistakes.

www.theatlantic.com

I wanted to make this post as a reflection of how America and the Middle East have changed since 2001.
We should be looking back as a reminder that democracies do have a choice in how they respond to acts of terror. Looking back at the last two decades, can we really argue that the logic of the war on terror has made the world a better place or more democratic?

I wanted to kick things off with a post from Edward Snowden's blog: 9/12

September 12 was the first day of a new era, which America faced with a unified resolve, strengthened by a revived sense of patriotism and the goodwill and sympathy of the world. In retrospect, my country could have done so much with this opportunity. It could have treated terror not as the theological phenomenon it purported to be, but as the crime it was. It could have used this rare moment of solidarity to reinforce democratic values and cultivate resilience in the now-connected global public.

Instead, it went to war.

The greatest regret of my life is my reflexive, unquestioning support for that decision. I was outraged, yes, but that was only the beginning of a process in which my heart completely defeated my rational judgment. I accepted all the claims retailed by the media as facts, and I repeated them as if I were being paid for it. I wanted to be a liberator. I wanted to free the oppressed. I embraced the truth constructed for the good of the state, which in my passion I confused with the good of the country. It was as if whatever individual politics I’d developed had crashed—the anti-institutional hacker ethos instilled in me online, and the apolitical patriotism I’d inherited from my parents, both wiped from my system—and I’d been rebooted as a willing vehicle of vengeance. The sharpest part of the humiliation comes from acknowledging how easy this transformation was, and how readily I welcomed it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Over the past month I have come to realize that Hamas's attack on Israel has become Israel's 9/11.
It seems that after some reading I'm far from the first one to come to this conclusion, from the Israeli representative to the UN to every other American editorial.

Yes, This Is Israel’s 9/11

Both the U.S. and Israel were stunned to experience the ultraviolence they mete out to others.

theintercept.com

Israel Must Not React Stupidly

If this is Israel’s 9/11, it can learn from America’s mistakes.

www.theatlantic.com

I wanted to make this post as a reflection of how America and the Middle East have changed since 2001.
We should be looking back as a reminder that democracies do have a choice in how they respond to acts of terror. Looking back at the last two decades, can we really argue that the logic of the war on terror has made the world a better place or more democratic?

I wanted to kick things off with a post from Edward Snowden's blog: 9/12

Snowden pledged loyalty to Russia.

He's a traitor.

 

[Revoltingest]

Snowden pledged loyalty to Russia.

He's a traitor.

You've left out some mitigating details.
Do you know what they are?

 

[libre]

Snowden pledged loyalty to Russia.

He's a traitor.

This is inaccurate.

He was trapped in Russia by the government of the United States because they revoked his passport while on his way to South America.
He did realistically everything in his power to leave the country but Joe Biden as VP did basically everything possible to block him from air travel or migrating into Western Europe.

He held out for nearly a decade hoping that he could return home and be granted a fair trial. Applying to be a Russian citizen was something he did as a last resort.

Further, becoming a Russian citizen is not treason, and applying for citizenship being framed as a crime or treason is incredibly silly. Snowden unilaterally refused to collaborate with Russian intelligence.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is inaccurate.

He was trapped in Russia by the government of the United States because they revoked his passport while on his way to South America.
He did realistically everything in his power to leave the country but Joe Biden as VP did basically everything possible to block him from air travel or migrating into Western Europe.

He held out for nearly a decade hoping that he could return home and be granted a fair trial. Applying to be a Russian citizen was something he did as a last resort.

Further, becoming a Russian citizen is not treason, and applying for citizenship being framed as a crime or treason is incredibly silly. Snowden unilaterally refused to collaborate with Russian intelligence.

Don't confuse the issue by adding information
to understand the circumstances.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This is inaccurate.

He was trapped in Russia by the government of the United States because they revoked his passport while on his way to South America.
He did realistically everything in his power to leave the country but Joe Biden as VP did basically everything possible to block him from air travel or migrating into Western Europe.

He held out for nearly a decade hoping that he could return home and be granted a fair trial. Applying to be a Russian citizen was something he did as a last resort.

Further, becoming a Russian citizen is not treason, and applying for citizenship being framed as a crime or treason is incredibly silly. Snowden unilaterally refused to collaborate with Russian intelligence.

Snowden fled to save his *** and then pledged loyalty to Russia.

He's a traitor.

 

[Stevicus]

Over the past month I have come to realize that Hamas's attack on Israel has become Israel's 9/11.
It seems that after some reading I'm far from the first one to come to this conclusion, from the Israeli representative to the UN to every other American editorial.

Yes, This Is Israel’s 9/11

Both the U.S. and Israel were stunned to experience the ultraviolence they mete out to others.

theintercept.com

Israel Must Not React Stupidly

If this is Israel’s 9/11, it can learn from America’s mistakes.

www.theatlantic.com

I wanted to make this post as a reflection of how America and the Middle East have changed since 2001.
We should be looking back as a reminder that democracies do have a choice in how they respond to acts of terror. Looking back at the last two decades, can we really argue that the logic of the war on terror has made the world a better place or more democratic?

I wanted to kick things off with a post from Edward Snowden's blog: 9/12

I don't know if the attack on Israel would be comparable to 9/11, as Israel has been facing attack since before its inception. They've always been in a somewhat precarious situation with a tiny strip of beachfront land surrounded by hostile neighbors. That's a situation which is worlds apart from the USA, which has been cushioned by two oceans and which hadn't had a war fought on its soil in more than a century.

Another key difference is that the Hamas fighters poured over the border , whereas the 9/11 bombers entered the US under false pretenses, pretending to be ordinary immigrants and lived here for years before doing what they did. A major concern (which still looms today) was about the potential backlash against Arab-American and Muslim immigrants living in America. I shudder to think what would have happened if Trump had been President on 9/11.

The government had its work cut out for it in trying to manage and redirect the public's outrage over the attacks. By shifting the public's focus over to some far-off, distant locale on the other side of the world, it served to maintain a reasonable degree of internal domestic tranquility, while still giving the masses their proverbial "pound of flesh."

 

[Sargonski]

Snowden fled to save his *** and then pledged loyalty to Russia.

He's a traitor.

Your confusing Brave Heroic Hero with "Traitor" friend ? someone fleeing the country to save life from tyrannical maniacs that happen to be running the circus is not traitorous to the constitution and the constitutional republic .. but the most Patriotic act one can engage in - when that corrupt regime is engaging in crimes against the citizens .. and humanity .. the Terrorist Tyrants .. sick Nazi ******** - taken over the farm.

Calling out Gov't crimes .. knowing one will be hunted down by Police State and imprisoned, tortured and possibly killed for this action .. is more Patriotic than anything you have ever done.. or even conceived of doing friend. You have a very strange definition of "Traitor" one of them orwellian definitions where everything is backwards of what it means.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Your confusing Brave Heroic Hero with "Traitor" friend ? someone fleeing the country to save life from tyrannical maniacs that happen to be running the circus is not traitorous to the constitution and the constitutional republic .. but the most Patriotic act one can engage in - when that corrupt regime is engaging in crimes against the citizens .. and humanity .. the Terrorist Tyrants .. sick Nazi ******** - taken over the farm.

Calling out Gov't crimes .. knowing one will be hunted down by Police State and imprisoned, tortured and possibly killed for this action .. is more Patriotic than anything you have ever done.. or even conceived of doing friend. You have a very strange definition of "Traitor" one of them orwellian definitions where everything is backwards of what it means.

I'm sure Russia and Putin appreciates the sentiment and principles that Snowden appreciates so much that are near and dear to his heart.

So much as to vow fealty to the Russian Motherland.

 

[sayak83]

Over the past month I have come to realize that Hamas's attack on Israel has become Israel's 9/11.
It seems that after some reading I'm far from the first one to come to this conclusion, from the Israeli representative to the UN to every other American editorial.

Yes, This Is Israel’s 9/11

Both the U.S. and Israel were stunned to experience the ultraviolence they mete out to others.

theintercept.com

Israel Must Not React Stupidly

If this is Israel’s 9/11, it can learn from America’s mistakes.

www.theatlantic.com

I wanted to make this post as a reflection of how America and the Middle East have changed since 2001.
We should be looking back as a reminder that democracies do have a choice in how they respond to acts of terror. Looking back at the last two decades, can we really argue that the logic of the war on terror has made the world a better place or more democratic?

I wanted to kick things off with a post from Edward Snowden's blog: 9/12

The same argument can be made more easily without bringing the views of a controversial person here.
Blood and Treasure: United States Budgetary Costs and Human Costs of 20 Years of War in Iraq and Syria, 2003-2023 | Costs of War

 

[Revoltingest]

Snowden fled to save his *** and then pledged loyalty to Russia.

He's a traitor.

As traitors go, he's one of the most patriotic towards USA.
He exposed the extensive lies & illegalities of our government.
Contrast that with the Christian Nationalist Trump...who
subverts our laws, & staged a failed coup. Now there is a
traitor. Snowden deserves a statue. Trump deserves prison.

 

[Twilight Hue]

As traitors go, he's one of the most patriotic towards USA.
He exposed the extensive lies & illegalities of our government.
Contrast that with the Christian Nationalist Trump...who
subverts our laws, & staged a failed coup. Now there is a
traitor. Snowden deserves a statue. Trump deserves prison.

But instead, just flee to a nation that is the complete antithesis of one's supposed 'convictions '.

Nice logic.

 

[Revoltingest]

But instead, just flee to a nation that is the complete antithesis of one's supposed 'convictions '.

Nice logic.

To live free (sort of) in a **** hole
country beats life in prison here.

 

[Twilight Hue]

To live free (sort of) in a **** hole
country beats life in prison here.

For oneself and oneself alone obviously.

Does absolutely nothing but makes him a complete turncoat nobody without any real compass , effectively negating everything he supposedly stood for, assuming he ever had stood for anything seriously enough past his own sense of self preservation.

But that ls the modern way now. Principles are just not worth self sacrificing oneself over.

Don't have them then.

 

[Revoltingest]

For oneself and oneself alone obviously.

USA doesn't always deserve loyalty.
I'll oppose USA on many issues.
I was even wiling to make the ultimate sacrifice
of moving to....ugh....Canuckistan to avoid serving
in a poorly run military to attack people on the
other side of the planet.
(Nixon cancelled the draft in the nick of time.)
So I understand Snowden leaving for personal liberty.

What would you have done if you were me or Snowden?

Does absolutely nothing but makes him a complete turncoat nobody without any real compass , effectively negating everything he supposedly stood for, assuming he ever had stood for anything seriously enough past his own sense of self preservation.

But that ls the modern way now. Principles are just not worth self sacrificing oneself over.

Don't have them then.

His work here was vitally important, but it is done.
Fleeing a vengeful government make sense, &
doesn't discredit what he found & published.

Or do you feel differently about what he found
because of the move?

 

[Stevicus]

Snowden fled to save his *** and then pledged loyalty to Russia.

He's a traitor.

 

[Twilight Hue]

All for one and one for all, eh?

 

[libre]

Does absolutely nothing but makes him a complete turncoat nobody without any real compass , effectively negating everything he supposedly stood for, assuming he ever had stood for anything seriously enough past his own sense of self preservation.

Snowden burned his life to the ground for his principles at immense personal cost to himself. You can have whatever opinion you like of him, but the matter of fact is that the whole basis for his prosecution is that he told the American public the truth.

The United States was lying to it's citizens. Not just one administration. Not just one institution. Not just one agency.

He made himself the enemy of the most powerful people on earth because the American public had the right to know.

This is not something someone who is solely interested in self-preservation does. I for one am happy that his story has not ended with him in a black site facility or 6 feet in the ground after an assassination attempt.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Snowden burned his life to the ground for his principles at immense personal cost to himself. You can have whatever opinion you like of him, but the matter of fact is that the whole basis for his prosecution is that he told the American public the truth.

The United States was lying to it's citizens. Not just one administration. Not just one institution. Not just one agency.

He made himself the enemy of the most powerful people on earth because the American public had the right to know.

This is not something someone who is solely interested in self-preservation does. I for one am happy that his story has not ended with him in a black site facility or 6 feet in the ground after an assassination attempt.

I leave you with this.

 

[Stevicus]

All for one and one for all, eh?

Over time, people who were once called traitors might get rehabilitated by historians. There used to be posters during JFK's time where it said "Wanted for treason," so it's oftentimes just a matter of perspective and opinion more than anything else.

Even Benedict Arnold might be viewed somewhat different these days (even though still generally negative). Or "Hanoi" Jane Fonda who still managed to have a successful career. Most of the Confederates were given amnesty and essentially forgiven.

Americans are actually quite forgiving, when you think about it. Sometimes it depends on if someone commits treason for some sort of political cause or if it's just for money or personal glory.

John Brown was considered a traitor, but some might believe he had a good reason - and the matter may continue to be debated in the years to come.