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A 35,000-year flute refutes the idea of historic evolution

ihsan karacabey

New Member
A 35,000-year-old flute unearthed during the course of excavations in Germany shows, like other flutes discovered to date, that people in very ancient times possessed a highly developed artistic culture.

The flute, made from griffon vulture bone, was unearthed in 12 fragments from the Hohle Fels cave in southern Germany by archeologist Nicholas Conard. Since the 5-hole whistle is enormously fragile, Conard had an identical copy made from a similar piece of bone in order to test the instrument’s functionality. He was able to play the American national anthem, the Star Spangled Banner, on the flute, using the seven-note scale that represents the foundation of Western music.

Archeologists also discovered six statuettes made from mammoth tusk in the same cave. Wil Roebroeks, an archeologist from the University of Leiden in Holland, states that there was a highly advanced culture in Europe 35,000 years ago and that people then had a very similar lifestyle to people today. Roebroeks says that these flutes were made and played by modern human beings. April Nowell from the University of Victoria in Canada has stated that these finds reveal the existence of a highly advanced and stable technical knowledge and tradition.

These archeological finds once again refute the Darwinist claim that human beings share a common ancestor with apes. Darwinists maintain that the ape-like entities that supposedly lived tens of thousands of years ago, grunting to one another and living an animal lifestyle, came to live in groups and thus developed intelligent and social behavior. But these supposed primitive entities are not the only beings to live in social groups. Gorillas, chimpanzees, monkeys and many other animal species live in groups. But none of these have developed the same intelligent and social behavior as human beings. None has made a 7-note flute, manufactured statuettes or, in short, exhibited any such intelligence and ability. Because intelligent and conscious behavior is unique to human beings. These objects dating back to tens of thousands of years[/URL], the remains of which have come down to us today, were produced by human beings possessed of intelligence and consciousness, the ability to calculate, plan and manufacture, and a soul given them by Allah.
 
i don't understand how that refutes evolution.. it actually refutes a lot of fundamentalist teachings of Christianity which claim the earth is only 10,000 years old..

and.. many scientists believe the split from an ape-LIKE species to the hominid species occurred roughly 5 million years ago, because they have fossil evidence to support they existed then.
 

Nepenthe

Tu Stultus Es
These archeological finds once again refute the Darwinist claim that human beings share a common ancestor with apes. Darwinists maintain that the ape-like entities that supposedly lived tens of thousands of years ago, grunting to one another and living an animal lifestyle, came to live in groups and thus developed intelligent and social behavior. But these supposed primitive entities are not the only beings to live in social groups. Gorillas, chimpanzees, monkeys and many other animal species live in groups. But none of these have developed the same intelligent and social behavior as human beings. None has made a 7-note flute, manufactured statuettes or, in short, exhibited any such intelligence and ability. Because intelligent and conscious behavior is unique to human beings. These objects dating back to tens of thousands of years[/url], the remains of which have come down to us today, were produced by human beings possessed of intelligence and consciousness, the ability to calculate, plan and manufacture, and a soul given them by Allah.
You do realize the artifacts were made during the Aurignacian period, that is, about 35k years ago... They were modern humans. What's the controversy?
"None has made a 7-note flute, manufactured statuettes" and none have here either. Here's a real article by a real science journal describing what you've failed to understand.
 
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Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
These archeological finds once again refute the Darwinist claim that human beings share a common ancestor with apes. Darwinists maintain that the ape-like entities that supposedly lived tens of thousands of years ago, grunting to one another and living an animal lifestyle, came to live in groups and thus developed intelligent and social behavior. But these supposed primitive entities are not the only beings to live in social groups. Gorillas, chimpanzees, monkeys and many other animal species live in groups. But none of these have developed the same intelligent and social behavior as human beings. None has made a 7-note flute, manufactured statuettes or, in short, exhibited any such intelligence and ability. Because intelligent and conscious behavior is unique to human beings. These objects dating back to tens of thousands of years[/url], the remains of which have come down to us today, were produced by human beings possessed of intelligence and consciousness, the ability to calculate, plan and manufacture, and a soul given them by Allah.

No it doesn't. Cro Magnons, A.K.A, modern humans, existed back then, yes, but I believe Neanderthals were still around at the time, as well. So for all we know, the flute could have been made by Neanderthals.

Besides, the Cro Magnons first showed up roughly 45,000 years ago, 10,000 years before this flute.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
A 35,000-year-old flute unearthed during the course of excavations in Germany shows, like other flutes discovered to date, that people in very ancient times possessed a highly developed artistic culture.

The flute, made from griffon vulture bone, was unearthed in 12 fragments from the Hohle Fels cave in southern Germany by archeologist Nicholas Conard. Since the 5-hole whistle is enormously fragile, Conard had an identical copy made from a similar piece of bone in order to test the instrument’s functionality. He was able to play the American national anthem, the Star Spangled Banner, on the flute, using the seven-note scale that represents the foundation of Western music.

Archeologists also discovered six statuettes made from mammoth tusk in the same cave. Wil Roebroeks, an archeologist from the University of Leiden in Holland, states that there was a highly advanced culture in Europe 35,000 years ago and that people then had a very similar lifestyle to people today. Roebroeks says that these flutes were made and played by modern human beings. April Nowell from the University of Victoria in Canada has stated that these finds reveal the existence of a highly advanced and stable technical knowledge and tradition.

These archeological finds once again refute the Darwinist claim that human beings share a common ancestor with apes. Darwinists maintain that the ape-like entities that supposedly lived tens of thousands of years ago, grunting to one another and living an animal lifestyle, came to live in groups and thus developed intelligent and social behavior. But these supposed primitive entities are not the only beings to live in social groups. Gorillas, chimpanzees, monkeys and many other animal species live in groups. But none of these have developed the same intelligent and social behavior as human beings. None has made a 7-note flute, manufactured statuettes or, in short, exhibited any such intelligence and ability. Because intelligent and conscious behavior is unique to human beings. These objects dating back to tens of thousands of years[/url], the remains of which have come down to us today, were produced by human beings possessed of intelligence and consciousness, the ability to calculate, plan and manufacture, and a soul given them by Allah.

Actually, it supports it. What on earth is a "Darwinist?" Did you mean possibliy "anthropologist?" MOdern anthropologists do NOT assert that the ancestors of human beings who lived 35,000 years ago were pre-hominid. On the contrary, they were almost identical to modern human beings. Have you been reading those darned creationists again? Didn't anyone tell you they're bunch of liars? Better not repeat their tripe, or people will start to suspect you of lying as well.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
These archeological finds once again refute the Darwinist claim that human beings share a common ancestor with apes. Darwinists maintain that the ape-like entities that supposedly lived tens of thousands of years ago, grunting to one another and living an animal lifestyle, came to live in groups and thus developed intelligent and social behavior.
Step 1. Open mouth.
Step 2. Insert Foot.
:foot:
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Wil Roebroeks, an archeologist from the University of Leiden in Holland, states that there was a highly advanced culture in Europe 35,000 years ago and that people then had a very similar lifestyle to people today.

Taken out of context, that statement is meaningless.


Darwinists maintain that the ape-like entities that supposedly lived tens of thousands of years ago, grunting to one another and living an animal lifestyle, came to live in groups and thus developed intelligent and social behavior.

(1) What is a "Darwinist"?

(2) Aren't you actually describing what creationists (falsely) believe archaeologists, anthropologists, biologists and other scientists are saying?

Because intelligent and conscious behavior is unique to human beings.

Ever gotten to know an animal?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
wow... I don't think I've read such a bad misinterpretation of a valuable scientific find in a while.

It's poe worthy.

wa:do
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
A 35,000-year-old flute unearthed during the course of excavations in Germany shows, like other flutes discovered to date, that people in very ancient times possessed a highly developed artistic culture.

The flute, made from griffon vulture bone, was unearthed in 12 fragments from the Hohle Fels cave in southern Germany by archeologist Nicholas Conard. Since the 5-hole whistle is enormously fragile, Conard had an identical copy made from a similar piece of bone in order to test the instrument’s functionality. He was able to play the American national anthem, the Star Spangled Banner, on the flute, using the seven-note scale that represents the foundation of Western music.

Archeologists also discovered six statuettes made from mammoth tusk in the same cave. Wil Roebroeks, an archeologist from the University of Leiden in Holland, states that there was a highly advanced culture in Europe 35,000 years ago and that people then had a very similar lifestyle to people today. Roebroeks says that these flutes were made and played by modern human beings. April Nowell from the University of Victoria in Canada has stated that these finds reveal the existence of a highly advanced and stable technical knowledge and tradition.

These archeological finds once again refute the Darwinist claim that human beings share a common ancestor with apes. Darwinists maintain that the ape-like entities that supposedly lived tens of thousands of years ago, grunting to one another and living an animal lifestyle, came to live in groups and thus developed intelligent and social behavior. But these supposed primitive entities are not the only beings to live in social groups. Gorillas, chimpanzees, monkeys and many other animal species live in groups. But none of these have developed the same intelligent and social behavior as human beings. None has made a 7-note flute, manufactured statuettes or, in short, exhibited any such intelligence and ability. Because intelligent and conscious behavior is unique to human beings. These objects dating back to tens of thousands of years[/url], the remains of which have come down to us today, were produced by human beings possessed of intelligence and consciousness, the ability to calculate, plan and manufacture, and a soul given them by Allah.

all this "proves" and is very clear if we look at other examples, is that arguably art and hand made craft works (and similar artisan skills) are actually devolving....

It really does nothing for evolution vs God did arguments....

it just proves mankind were great artists, perhaps arguably more so than now, in ancient times... we can see this if we look at many other examples of ancient art...

I believe Picasso when looking at cave paintings in france declared in misery that all he was doing, was nothing new.... (it may have been a different artist)
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Oh come now, how many times has science been way off the mark with dating artifacts?
And, what is it? a five hole seven note flute or a seven hole flute?
Lastly, Western music is based on a 12 note equal temperament system.
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Oh come now, how many times has science been way off the mark with dating artifacts?
And, what is it? a five hole seven note flute or a seven hole flute?
Lastly, Western music is based on a 12 note equal temperament system.

actually prior to the middle ages music was different....

ever looked into pythagorean music?
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Oh come now, how many times has science been way off the mark with dating artifacts?
And, what is it? a five hole seven note flute or a seven hole flute?
Lastly, Western music is based on a 12 note equal temperament system.
What are you babbling about?
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
it just proves mankind were great artists, perhaps arguably more so than now, in ancient times... we can see this if we look at many other examples of ancient art...

Let's not go overboard. Mankind may have always had a drive to create art, but arguing that artists 350 centuries ago were greater than artists of modern times, or even the last milleniun displays a severely lacking knowledge of art.
 
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