A Bunch of Reasons Why I Question Noah's Flood Story:

[robocop (actually)]

Then do not refer to an account of how a convicted conman fooled a bunch of people and started what is still one of the more cultic versions of Christianity.

That book is wonderful.

If you're going to dis on it I prefer not to talk to you.

On second thought; I can understand. You were taught by academia.

 

[gnostic]

Anyway why do you test scriptures without the possibility of God when those scriptures say it was done by God? We all know some scripture is likely made up though.

God is not something or someone that can be tested. You cannot observe, quantify or measure God.

Science required evidence of something that can be observed, measured or tested, and that something must either be physical or natural & physical.

For instance, when we study geology, we can observe and identify this rock from that, we can identify the chemical & mineral compositions. We can measure their mass and volume and determine their densities. We can determine how they are made, eg igneous rocks from cooling of volcanic magma, the sources of sedimentary rocks, etc. We can date the rock to determine the age of the rocks through one of many radiometric methods, or through one of several luminescence methods, or through the studies of strata (hence stratigraphy, the oldest method, before the discovery of radiometric dating).

If you don’t know what the luminescence methods are, it is method of measuring the last time the rocks or the minerals were exposed to sunlight, especially ultraviolet radiation, BEFORE they were buried. Luminescence methods can also measure other objects, objects as in man-made artifacts that were buried or covered up, hence not touch by UV light, eg pottery, tools, weapons, coffins, etc.

There are some stuffs, natural but cannot be perceived by our eyesight, we have created devices that can do our observations for us, eg telescopes to observe distant stars, clusters or galaxies, microscopes to observe some things that are too small, various devices to detect and measure different electromagnetic waves and measure their frequencies and wavelengths, devices that can audio frequencies that are not detectable by human hearings, thermometer and other devices that can measure heat, and so on.

You cannot do the same things for gods, spirits, angels & demons, fairies, magic & miracles, and anything that are consider supernatural, and lot of these above, come from made up belief, imagination, hallucinations or worse, from madness and delusions.

And a lot of things written in scriptures and other mythological texts are based on superstitions and hearsay.

I am no archaeologist, paleontologist or geologist, but people who have study bodies, artifacts, ancient sites, and the strata of rocks, have found no evidence that a single massive global flood that took place in a single year or date. If there were such a flood as narrated in the Genesis, then the evidence should exist everywhere at that specific time, and yet we find none.

The Flood is estimated that it took place in some point of 2nd half of 3rd millennium BCE, and yet there are no evidence of such catastrophic disruptions in Egyptian culture or the Sumerian-Akkadian civilization, or in India and China. While they all have their own myths of floods, their cities were often built near rivers, lakes or coasts, or they built their homes or settlements in natural basins, valleys or floodplain, so of course there could be flooding in these sites or regions...BUT there were no single flood taking place everywhere at specific single date.

And that’s the problems with the Genesis Flood, there are no physical evidence to support a global, not in human history, and especially not in the Early Bronze Age.

 

[blü 2]

Not to mention incompetent.

The mortality rate isn't that high and within a year, humans developed a vaccine.
I'ld expect more from an all-powerful god who creates a virus as a punishment for whatever.

And one would like to think that justice requires individual accountability, not the death of people in nursing homes and their carers. I wonder what the mortality rate of elected representatives has been as a group?

To the point where this system is so messed up that he had to invent a loophole where he incarnated as a human to have himself sacrificed to himself so that he could save us from himself to fix this problem of "doomed by default" for which he himself is even ultimately responsible for.

That seems fair, yes. I even started a thread recently which after more than 400 posts hadn't offered any coherent account of why such a thing could be necessary for an omnipotent and benevolent god. If we drop 'benevolent' and sub 'arbitrary' we get closer, perhaps.

 

[blü 2]

I can think of simple, reasonable alternatives to the questions you've posed, however, let's start with you don't ever want to accept on plausible explanation for any anti-Christian question you raise. You have an agenda.

I freely confess that I prefer statements that are true ─ in the sense of being accurate statements about reality ─ to statements that aren't true in that sense.

And had the world been under water as described in Genesis' Noah story then there would now HAVE to be simultaneous genetic bottlenecks in all species of land animal, a single geological flood layer all over all continents, islands and the ocean floor, and a billion cubic miles of water over and above the water presently on the earth ─ but instead we find none of those things.

And that's the truth.

 

[robocop (actually)]

God is not something or someone that can be tested. You cannot observe, quantify or measure God.

Then why are you trying to grade the Bible scientifically if it's a story about God?

Also, I do believe I have a non-mystical way for there to be God, but since I get reviled I better not try it.

 

[gnostic]

And had the world been under water as described in Genesis' Noah story then there would now HAVE to be simultaneous genetic bottlenecks in all species of land animal, a single geological flood layer all over all continents, islands and the ocean floor, and a billion cubic miles of water over and above the water presently on the earth ─ but instead we find none of those things.

If the Flood happened the way it did in Genesis by covering the high mountains, then it would have catastrophically change the sea level.

Changing the levels of the sea, the post-Flood won’t drop back to the pre-Flood level when the water supposedly receded. Water don’t simply vanished if it did cover all the mountains, like the Everest.

Hence, another reason why the Genesis Flood is unrealistic.

 

[gnostic]

Then why are you trying to grade the Bible scientifically if it's a story about God?

Also, I do believe I have a non-mystical way for there to be God, but since I get reviled I better not try it.

No, robocop.

If I was grading the Bible by science, then I would be looking for physical evidence.

Your belief in god is faith-based, not evidence-based.

 

[robocop (actually)]

No, robocop.

If I was grading the Bible by science, then I would be looking for physical evidence.

Your belief in god is faith-based, not evidence-based.

Like I said for me it doesn't even have to be a flood.

I will not reveal my reasoning that there is a God.

 

[robocop (actually)]

No, robocop.

If I was grading the Bible by science, then I would be looking for physical evidence.

Your belief in god is faith-based, not evidence-based.

I'm sorry I misunderstood.

You want to know if God left evidence for the flood in science.

Of course the whole 5 books of moses don't have evidence and if God were to do such a great thing as flood the earth he could probably hide the evidence, but I'll look at your post.

 

[robocop (actually)]

God is not something or someone that can be tested. You cannot observe, quantify or measure God.

Science required evidence of something that can be observed, measured or tested, and that something must either be physical or natural & physical.

For instance, when we study geology, we can observe and identify this rock from that, we can identify the chemical & mineral compositions. We can measure their mass and volume and determine their densities. We can determine how they are made, eg igneous rocks from cooling of volcanic magma, the sources of sedimentary rocks, etc. We can date the rock to determine the age of the rocks through one of many radiometric methods, or through one of several luminescence methods, or through the studies of strata (hence stratigraphy, the oldest method, before the discovery of radiometric dating).

If you don’t know what the luminescence methods are, it is method of measuring the last time the rocks or the minerals were exposed to sunlight, especially ultraviolet radiation, BEFORE they were buried. Luminescence methods can also measure other objects, objects as in man-made artifacts that were buried or covered up, hence not touch by UV light, eg pottery, tools, weapons, coffins, etc.

There are some stuffs, natural but cannot be perceived by our eyesight, we have created devices that can do our observations for us, eg telescopes to observe distant stars, clusters or galaxies, microscopes to observe some things that are too small, various devices to detect and measure different electromagnetic waves and measure their frequencies and wavelengths, devices that can audio frequencies that are not detectable by human hearings, thermometer and other devices that can measure heat, and so on.

You cannot do the same things for gods, spirits, angels & demons, fairies, magic & miracles, and anything that are consider supernatural, and lot of these above, come from made up belief, imagination, hallucinations or worse, from madness and delusions.

And a lot of things written in scriptures and other mythological texts are based on superstitions and hearsay.

I am no archaeologist, paleontologist or geologist, but people who have study bodies, artifacts, ancient sites, and the strata of rocks, have found no evidence that a single massive global flood that took place in a single year or date. If there were such a flood as narrated in the Genesis, then the evidence should exist everywhere at that specific time, and yet we find none.

The Flood is estimated that it took place in some point of 2nd half of 3rd millennium BCE, and yet there are no evidence of such catastrophic disruptions in Egyptian culture or the Sumerian-Akkadian civilization, or in India and China. While they all have their own myths of floods, their cities were often built near rivers, lakes or coasts, or they built their homes or settlements in natural basins, valleys or floodplain, so of course there could be flooding in these sites or regions...BUT there were no single flood taking place everywhere at specific single date.

And that’s the problems with the Genesis Flood, there are no physical evidence to support a global, not in human history, and especially not in the Early Bronze Age.

I have already addressed these claims in my belief.

 

[robocop (actually)]

In Genesis 1:2 the spirit of God brooded over the waters.

That means God sometimes reveals Himself more than other times.

If we knew a flood had happened there would be no way for God to do that. Or, probably, we would just say they knew there was a flood and made up the rest.

 

[blü 2]

If the Flood happened the way it did in Genesis by covering the high mountains, then it would have catastrophically change the sea level.

Changing the levels of the sea, the post-Flood won’t drop back to the pre-Flood level when the water supposedly receded. Water don’t simply vanished if it did cover all the mountains, like the Everest.

Hence, another reason why the Genesis Flood is unrealistic.

Yup!

When I do the quick and dirty sums to find out roughly how much extra water is needed to lift the present water level so as to cover Mt Everest 15 cubits (say, 25 feet) deep as Genesis requires I get a result of about 1.113 bn cubic miles.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses. Even Jews don't practice much of it.

Since many of those laws were immoral or nonsensical that is a good thing. And then there is the fact that Moses was mythical. But even with that Jesus disagrees with you.

 

[F1fan]

What did I just say?

"If the Aliens hide from the scientists they do not know about them."

And I said that aliens are more plausible than ghods existing because they are natural beings of the universe, and gods are in the category of supernatural phenomenon of which there is no known actual real things.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That book is wonderful.

If you're going to dis on it I prefer not to talk to you.

On second thought; I can understand. You were taught by academia.

The Lord of the Rings was wonderful too. Pointing out that both are fiction is not "dising" on them.

 

[F1fan]

Adam and Eve deliberately disobeyed God and allowed humanity to exist in the process.

So the Creator designed beings that had inadequate discipline to obey the rules the Creator set for them. So if the Creator wanted its beings to obey the rules don't you think it would have given them adequate discipline and wisdom to be obedient?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So the Creator designed beings that had inadequate discipline to obey the rules the Creator set for them. So if the Creator wanted its beings to obey the rules don't you think it would have given them adequate discipline and wisdom to be obedient?

Creationists unfortunately tend to lack critical reasoning. They cannot understand how the Bible says that it is all God's fault.

 

[F1fan]

Show me Bible-supported slavery in the New Testament.

That wasn't required for the Southern Baptists of the Confederate South. They were very well justified in slavery due to the Bible itself as a whole.

 

[F1fan]

Homosexuality was also frowned upon in the nt.

Really? Where is it brought up, and why do Christians always cite the OT Leviticus reference instead?

And fortunately I don't think it was frowned upon too much.

So you stand against the law of God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Really? Where is it brought up, and why do Christians always cite the OT Leviticus reference instead?


So you stand against the law of God?

Roman's 1 26-27 is another favorite. In fact many think that from his writings Paul may have been homosexual himself. Since he was brought up in a very very homophobic culture he appears to have seen that as an almost unforgivable flaw of his.