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A Bunch of Reasons Why I Question Noah's Flood Story:

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
And why would that be a problem for evolution ? In what way would that break the tree pattern ?

Why would what be a problem?

Evolution would still be true even if mammals had inactive genes for feathers

But they don't have inactive genes for feathers.
Yes, if ALL evidence were different and form a different hierarchical tree, then yes evolutionary lineages would then be different.

But that's not what we are talking about here. Because ALL evidence isn't different. All evidence is what it is. Which is precisely why discovering a rabbit in the pre-cambrian or a mammal with feathers would be a problem.

Derp-di-derp-derp. :rolleyes:

, all you have to do is conclude that feathers evolved before mammals and birds split (which was a possibility)

So all this nonsense was just an extremely elaborate way for you to conclude the obvious and useless tautology of "well if everything were different then things would be different".

If your mother wasn't your mother then, hey surprise surprise, then she wouldn't be your mother.

Owkay.


The point however was that everything remained the same as it is today and that what the impact would be then if we discovered a mammal with feathers tomorrow. While all else remains the same.

Seriously, dude...
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes excellent example, if we find such poem scientist would say "hey something whent wrong with the dating" because they understand that dating is not an exact science ,

Someone like you would say..... No no no dating methods are perfect, so let's change everything we know about history to accommodate to that date.
And this is what I predicted. You cannot fathom the science and fail at every attempt to assert things. You fail at avoiding your burden of proof by trying to force it onto others. The best you have is to make fictional claims about what if scenarios and blame scientists for crimes they did not commit.

I am having a difficult time differentiating creationist honesty with genuine dishonesty.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
I didn't agree to anything. I just said that what you claimed I would be saying, is not what I would be saying.
You don't know what I would be saying, because you didn't ask me.
Why bother asking? Doesn't listen anyway.



:rolleyes:
You should assume a bit less and try to stay on topic.
I assume he agrees with me. He hasn't refuted anything I have posted.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
No, no , give me an example of a layer that according to you was properly dated , provide a source that describes how the dating was done, an then I´ll tell you what the flaws are.
So, what you are saying is that geologists are quite ignorant in their own field, right?
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
So, what you are saying is that geologists are quite ignorant in their own field, right?
No geologists are not ignorant, only fanatic evolutionists from the internet are ignorant.

Geologists know that dating is not an exact science, they know that many assumptions have to be made before dating the sample,
 

gnostic

The Lost One
No geologists are not ignorant, only fanatic evolutionists from the internet are ignorant.

Geologists know that dating is not an exact science, they know that many assumptions have to be made before dating the sample,

@shunyadragon is a geologist.

Will you accept what he has to say on the matters?

Will he agree or disagree with you?

And @metis is a retired anthropology with field knowledge on archaeology, hence some knowledge on geology and dating. He even taught theology. Will he or disagree with your claims on dating?
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
Why would what be a problem?
If mammals would have had inactive genes for feathers, why would that be a problem from evolution, in what way would that “destroy” the tree pattern.

If mean if mammals would have had inactive genes for feathrs, that would simply indicate that feathers evolved before mammals and birds split, and that for some reason (selective pressure maybe) mammals lost their feathers……………..evolution would be consistent with this idea.



The point however was that everything remained the same as it is today and that what the impact would be then if we discovered a mammal with feathers tomorrow. While all else remains the same.

Seriously, dude...


So we have a parallel universe where everything remains the same, except that in this universe some mammals in the fossil record with feathers where discovered.(Darwin was aware of these fossils)

In what way would that falsify the theory of evolution?

In what way would that falsify say universal common ancestry?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
No scientists are not stupid . Only internet atheist are.
I'm an atheist on the internet. Specifically, I'm an atheist on RF. Do RF rules allow you to call me stupid?


stu·pid
/ˈst(y)o͞opəd/
adjective
  1. having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.


However, if we want to cast dispersions on intellect, we could look at your post. Two sentences, two grammatical errors.
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
@shunyadragon is a geologist.

Will you accept what he has to say on the matters?

Will he agree or disagree with you?

And @metis is a retired anthropology with field knowledge on archaeology, hence some knowledge on geology and dating. He even taught theology. Will he or disagree with your claims on dating?
If I were to be I´ll bet that they would agree with me on that dating is not an exact science, they would agree that usually fossils/layers are not dated with radiometric dating,

But yes in general terms I would agree with el factual information that they might provide. I might disagree with their interpretations of such facts.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If I were to be I´ll bet that they would agree with me on that dating is not an exact science, they would agree that usually fossils/layers are not dated with radiometric dating,

But yes in general terms I would agree with el factual information that they might provide. I might disagree with their interpretations of such facts.
Of course fossil layers are not dated. But that does not mean that we cannot get more and more accurate dating of them. It appears that you know this. By the way, you need to watch it when you sling around words such as "assume". You would need to prove that others made an unwarranted assumption when you do that and supporting your own claims is an area where you constantly fail.

By the way, I gave you a video to watch. Did you watch it yet?
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
Of course fossil layers are not dated. But that does not mean that we cannot get more and more accurate dating of them. It appears that you know this. By the way, you need to watch it when you sling around words such as "assume". You would need to prove that others made an unwarranted assumption when you do that and supporting your own claims is an area where you constantly fail.
Which is why I asked for an example of a fossil that according to you was dated accuretly, so that I can respond and support my claims



By the way, I gave you a video to watch. Did you watch it yet?
No
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Which is why I asked for an example of a fossil that according to you was dated accuretly, so that I can respond and support my claims




No
I will supply you with an example after you have watched the video. You asked for info, there is plenty related info in that video.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
No, no , give me an example of a layer that according to you was properly dated , provide a source that describes how the dating was done, an then I´ll tell you what the flaws are.
Why not write up your objections into a manuscript and submit it to the journal the original article was published in? Doing so here serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
If mammals would have had inactive genes for feathers, why would that be a problem from evolution, in what way would that “destroy” the tree pattern.

If you rearrange the entire thing and have it still form a tree, then obviously it won't break the tree pattern.
And once again we are back to the useless tautology: "if everything were different then everything would be different".

The fact of the matter is that mammals do not have such genes. Instead, they have genes for hair.

So if tomorrow you find such a mammal, while all other mammals (and non-mammals) studied till today remain the same, then the tree pattern breaks.

Sheesh dude.
How many times do you need it spelled out for you?

You are so far gone you have even lost track on the core issue. That core issue was: what if tomorrow we find a mammal with feathers?

As explained above, and several other multiple times, then it would be in conflict with all other data and it would be a violation of the nested hierarchical structure of anatomy and dna.

Because finding a mammals with feathers tomorrow, wouldn't change anything about all the mammals we already know and have studied to date.


If mean if mammals would have had inactive genes for feathrs

But they don't.
The point. You keep missing it. Or perhaps better said: you keep ignoring it.

, that would simply indicate that feathers evolved before mammals and birds split, and that for some reason (selective pressure maybe) mammals lost their feathers……………..evolution would be consistent with this idea.

But mammals don't have such genes.
And finding a mammal with feathers tomorrow, won't magically make such genes appear in all genomes sequenced to date, where such genes aren't present.

SO, finding a mammal with feathers tomorrow, would break the phylogenetic tree.

So we have a parallel universe where everything remains the same, except that in this universe some mammals in the fossil record with feathers where discovered.(Darwin was aware of these fossils)

In what way would that falsify the theory of evolution?

In what way would that falsify say universal common ancestry?

It would not fit a nested hierachy.

Also note that you are now resorting to arguing about hypothetical parallel universes to get your silly point accross.

You have now entered the level of "well if pigs could fly, then pigs could fly".

Well big whoop.

Call me when you actually find a mammal with feathers.
You won't though. I'm certain of this. Mammals have hair.

In fact, it could be even argued that if you find a creature with feathers, that already disqualifies it as a mammal. Because one of the charecteristics of mammals, is that they have hair. :rolleyes:

And that is the result of evolution. This is how we know that we won't be finding a feline with feathers. Because feathers sit an on entirely different branch of the tree of life, and evolution (common ancestry of species) is pretty much a fact. This is how we KNOW that we won't be finding any felines with feathers. Finding a feline with feathers would be the equivalent of finding a massive object that is unaffected by gravity.

IF you would encounter such, you'ld pretty much instantly think that there must be some anti-gravity technology going on.

Similarly, a feline with feathers, my first idea would be "result of artificial genetic manipulation", because natural origins of such a trait would be pretty much ruled out.

If it could be shown to have a natural origin, evolution as currently understood would be successfully disproven.




Ow, and I can make "supernatural" predictions also.
I predict that none of this will sink into that brain of yours and that within 2 posts, you'll be back making the same dumb claims again, as if none of the points made in this post (and all previous posts - and not just by yours truly) were never made. Instead, you'll just double down on your strawmen and intellectual dishonesty.

Go ahead. Prove me wrong.
 
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leroy

Well-Known Member
We do not agree. Ignoring most of my post and only quoting a single section to then pretend that we agree, is dishonest.

But by now I've come to expect this behavior from you.
We do not agree. Ignoring most of my post and only quoting a single section to then pretend that we agree, is dishonest.

But by now I've come to expect this behavior from you.
In that case can you please help me out and explain where is our point of disagreement? (on the feathers and mammals issue)
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
Why not write up your objections into a manuscript and submit it to the journal the original article was published in? Doing so here serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
Because I am not making any controversial claims.

1 Scientists know that evolution is a flexible theory (if conditions would have been different mammals could have evolved at some other age , or never)

2 If the conditions would have been different feathers could have evolved at some other point

3 in most of the cases A clam would have been buried before a bird in flood scenario

4 radiometric is not an exact science

Really I am making trivial and uncontroversial claims
 
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