A Bunch of Reasons Why I Question Noah's Flood Story:

[Dropship]

Are you suggesting that Noah and his family actually existed and constructed modern looking domes to house all the animals on the Ark?
Seriously?

God might have given Noah a helping hand to get the domes up and running-
"Praise to the Lord, to him who rides the ancient skies above, whose power is in the skies." (Psalm 68:33-34)

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't believe you have that right. Instead, maybe look at it as some of us don't believe the Bible is inerrant and somehow wasn't influenced by the culture it emerged from. However, that doesn't mean nor imply that it's trash or anything close to it.

Serious theology is to not assume things, thus certainty is the enemy of any serious theology. Plus, I would suggest that the Holy Spirit was and is at work within our faith, plus I believe that God's spirit was the impulse for the authors of the Bible to tell what they saw and/or came to believe.

IOW, God's Spirit was here long before the Bible was written-- so I believe.

OK, while I understand your well expressed point, I can't say I understand everything in the Bible, I'd be foolish if I said I did. Certainly we know Jesus corrected others including the apostles, and historically we also know that divisions and sects (obviously conflicting with one another) arose after Jesus died. There's more to it. I do believe that holy spirit was there, as you say, before the books were written. Otherwise we wouldn't have the accounts about Cain and Abel, Shem, Abraham, and others. Also preserved until now, and I might add, preserved from a long time ago.

 

[YoursTrue]

1- The "world" of those times might simply have referred to the Tigris-Euphrates area.
2- Isaac Asimov speculates in one of his books that an asteroid may have splashed down in the Persian Gulf and the resulting mega-tsunami washed Noah's Ark all the way up the Tig-Euph flood plain to Turkey.
3- As for the impossibility of cramming every species of creature into the Ark, that could be explained in modern scientific terms by speculating that the animals were reduced to tiny DNA samples and the Ark was a "DNA Repository".

The film 'Silent Running' touched on that theme where fullsize animals and forests were housed in large domes for safekeeping pending their return to earth-

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I met Isaac Asimov in the course of my working. Nice guy that I saw. He had some pretty fantastic ideas. Now I think it's funny about the theme of Silent Running. Funny in the terms of scientifically ridiculous. In other words, can't be done. He and I might have an argument about that, he might agree but enjoy working on such ideas for amusement, on the other hand, I look forward to meeting him someday. Not on a spaceship.

 

[YoursTrue]

Also, atheists are a part of God's plan. God created atheism and loves atheists.

I thought about your comment, and want to say that while God did not make Adam and Eve eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he knew what would happen if they did. Of course, some believe that God knew they would eat from it. I do not subscribe to that thought, although He could have known or set it up that way if He wanted to. He created angels and humans with free will, that is, the ability to choose for themselves what they wanted.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't believe you have that right. Instead, maybe look at it as some of us don't believe the Bible is inerrant and somehow wasn't influenced by the culture it emerged from. However, that doesn't mean nor imply that it's trash or anything close to it.

Serious theology is to not assume things, thus certainty is the enemy of any serious theology. Plus, I would suggest that the Holy Spirit was and is at work within our faith, plus I believe that God's spirit was the impulse for the authors of the Bible to tell what they saw and/or came to believe.

IOW, God's Spirit was here long before the Bible was written-- so I believe.

By the way, scholarship has shown us that some inserts have been penned beyond the original writings. (shrug.) Not to get into that argument now though. Also as you probably know, translation from Hebrew-Aramaic/Greek back to Hebrew, etc. Then to English and other languages. Etc. But substantially, the 66 books are well established.

 

[Dropship]

I met Isaac Asimov in the course of my working. Nice guy that I saw. He had some pretty fantastic ideas...
...I look forward to meeting him someday. Not on a spaceship.

Asimov said- "Emotionally I am an atheist but I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist.."
so he was still open-minded enough to write a book like this-

 

[metis]

OK, while I understand your well expressed point, I can't say I understand everything in the Bible, I'd be foolish if I said I did. Certainly we know Jesus corrected others including the apostles, and historically we also know that divisions and sects (obviously conflicting with one another) arose after Jesus died. There's more to it. I do believe that holy spirit was there, as you say, before the books were written. Otherwise we wouldn't have the accounts about Cain and Abel, Shem, Abraham, and others. Also preserved until now, and I might add, preserved from a long time ago.

I agree, but please also remember that writing objective history is not what drove our early Judeo-Christian ancestors as that's a much more recent phenominon. The use of myths and folklore, which doesn't mean falsehoods, btw, were used extennsively, thus taking many of these early myths are face value without considering what the authors were trying to convey is a mistake.

IOW, what are the morals of the myths and folklore that's being expressed? Noah's ark certainly falls into that context as it makes not one iota of sense to take it at the literal level.

 

[SkepticThinker]

God might have given Noah a helping hand to get the domes up and running-
"Praise to the Lord, to him who rides the ancient skies above, whose power is in the skies." (Psalm 68:33-34)

So you are serious.
And now you're invoking God magic.

So where do you think the remains of this super modern dome supposedly built in ancient times are resting now?

 

[metis]

By the way, scholarship has shown us that some inserts have been penned beyond the original writings. (shrug.) Not to get into that argument now though. Also as you probably know, translation from Hebrew-Aramaic/Greek back to Hebrew, etc. Then to English and other languages. Etc. But substantially, the 66 books are well established.

Actually the 66 weren't that well extablished at all. Some were, such as the synoptic gospels, but some others certainly weren't. The Books of Revelation and Hebrews were highly debated as two examples.

At the council whereas the canon of the Bible was selected during the 4th century, it took over 1000 bishops over a half-century to decide, and yet some books they couldn't decide upon so they left those for another day [Apocrypha].

 

[YoursTrue]

Actually the 66 weren't that well extablished at all. Some were, such as the synoptic gospels, but some others certainly weren't. The Books of Revelation and Hebrews were highly debated as two examples.

At the council whereas the canon of the Bible was selected during the 4th century, it took over 1000 bishops over a half-century to decide, and yet some books they couldn't decide upon so they left those for another day [Apocrypha].

Of course not all the bishops always agreed on things, I suppose. But here's where holy spirit kicks in. So the canon of 66 books was established in general at that point. And of course, not everyone was encouraged to read the Bible for quite a while. Some I heard at great peril to themselves.

 

[gnostic]

OK, while I understand your well expressed point, I can't say I understand everything in the Bible, I'd be foolish if I said I did. Certainly we know Jesus corrected others including the apostles, and historically we also know that divisions and sects (obviously conflicting with one another) arose after Jesus died. There's more to it. I do believe that holy spirit was there, as you say, before the books were written. Otherwise we wouldn't have the accounts about Cain and Abel, Shem, Abraham, and others. Also preserved until now, and I might add, preserved from a long time ago.

But Genesis is not that old. It was most likely composed during the 6th century BCE, not the Late Bronze Age 15th century BCE, supposedly attributed to Moses as the author.

No such writings (eg Genesis & Exodus) existed in the 15th century BCE.

And what Jesus say about the figures in Genesis, don’t count as reliable source, since the gospels are not eyewitness accounts to Cain and Abel to Abraham.

What Jesus say about Cain or Abraham, don’t verify anything. If anything, Jesus had perpetrated myths.

 

[gnostic]

Of course not all the bishops always agreed on things, I suppose. But here's where holy spirit kicks in. So the canon of 66 books was established in general at that point. And of course, not everyone was encouraged to read the Bible for quite a while. Some I heard at great peril to themselves.

You have used the “holy spirit” again, which is no better than the “god did it” superstitions.

The Holy Spirit doesn’t explain anything, nor verify anything as to what to include or exclude from the Bible canon.

Judging by the gospels being written in Greek, and it reliance on the Greek translations when the authors quoted passages from Old Testament, it relied on the Septuagint, and yet a number of books in the Septuagint weren’t included in the canon, and deemed as apocryphal.

 

[YoursTrue]

You have used the “holy spirit” again, which is no better than the “god did it” superstitions.

The Holy Spirit doesn’t explain anything, nor verify anything as to what to include or exclude from the Bible canon.

Judging by the gospels being written in Greek, and it reliance on the Greek translations when the authors quoted passages from Old Testament, it relied on the Septuagint, and yet a number of books in the Septuagint weren’t included in the canon, and deemed as apocryphal.

Perhaps you can ask Metis about that. Yes, I believe that it was holy spirit to bring together the books of the Bible. I do not believe that the holy spirit is one of the persons of the trinity. It's your opinion that holy spirit doesn't explain anything. My opinion is that it does, just like the Ethiopian eunuch received help to understand the Bible. By the way, not inconsequentially, I do not believe the holy spirit (God's holy spirit) is a person of the trinity composed of three equal persons, each called God. OK? Just so we understand one another a little bit. Thank you.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Can you imagine trying to get an ancient people to tolerate gay people? Look at the US 50 years ago and even now.

Eum....

Ancient people weren't exactly opposed to same -sex relations.

Gay sex for ancient greeks and romans wasn't exactly uncommon or "illegal".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I guess Yahweh is not so powerful or influential after all, huh?

Meanwhile, these days Elon Musk can make people terribly rich (or terribly poor again) with a single strategic tweet of some 30 characters.

Go figure.

 

[tas8831]

Meanwhile, these days Elon Musk can make people terribly rich (or terribly poor again) with a single strategic tweet of some 30 characters.

Go figure.

Like when he tweeted that Covid would be gone in 2 weeks...

 

[YoursTrue]

You have used the “holy spirit” again, which is no better than the “god did it” superstitions.

The Holy Spirit doesn’t explain anything, nor verify anything as to what to include or exclude from the Bible canon.

Judging by the gospels being written in Greek, and it reliance on the Greek translations when the authors quoted passages from Old Testament, it relied on the Septuagint, and yet a number of books in the Septuagint weren’t included in the canon, and deemed as apocryphal.

OK, I take some of that back, gnostic. Holy spirit moved along the surface of the waters...and it moves appropriately with the disciples of Christ and worshippers of God as it behooves them to understand things. For instance, in the scriptures prior to Christ's appearance on the earth, it was ok to have more than one wife. But there were laws and restrictions for the Israelites. (Not for the rest of the world who were not under mandate to obey the law of Moses.) So the spirit moved along with the times, in other words, what the people of Israel could understand and accept at that time.

 

[YoursTrue]

Like when he tweeted that Covid would be gone in 2 weeks...

Who are you referring to? I didn't say that.

 

[YoursTrue]

But Genesis is not that old. It was most likely composed during the 6th century BCE, not the Late Bronze Age 15th century BCE, supposedly attributed to Moses as the author.

No such writings (eg Genesis & Exodus) existed in the 15th century BCE.

And what Jesus say about the figures in Genesis, don’t count as reliable source, since the gospels are not eyewitness accounts to Cain and Abel to Abraham.

What Jesus say about Cain or Abraham, don’t verify anything. If anything, Jesus had perpetrated myths.

Here's what I know right now: Moses wrote during his lifetime. It was passed along. Those writings were revered by the faithful Israelites. They were copied and put into scrolls. It is also obvious that Moses did not write that he died. But for the very most part, it is faithfully and accurately (as possible) transcribed and copied.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Eum....

Ancient people weren't exactly opposed to same -sex relations.

Gay sex for ancient greeks and romans wasn't exactly uncommon or "illegal".

Right, civilization doesn't always progress in a straight line. You look at time but also the civilization's level.