A Chance for Atheists to Recover

[Magic Man]

I never meant to say that vegetarianism is morally superior, only that it is required to learn the meditation, and is more beneficial to mankind, and the world as a whole. These are facts, not opinion.

So, it's not morally superior, just better for the entire planet? Yeah, that makes you statement better.

And "These are facts, not opinion"? You're not serious, are you?

 

[McBell]

My intentions were not to debate about the merits of being vegetarian over not being vegeterian. I simply wanted to talk about a method to prove for yourself that God exists. The requirements to learn this method included becoming vegetarian.

The only reason I went into vegetarianism is because it is a requirement to learn the meditation. I was asked questions concerning vegetarianism and answered. My main purpose was to offer a method to prove God's existence, a chance for athiests to recover, if you will.

I understand that the habit of eating meat is a very hard habit to break, if you even want to break it at all. But please don't forget that the focus of my posts are to inform about a method to reach God directly. Vegetarianism is just a requirement of this method.

Let me see if I got this right...

You are claiming that in order to know that God exists, you have to be a vegetarian?

OR

Are you claiming that in order to know God exists, you have to meditate and that you have to be a vegetarian to meditate?

OR

Is it something else and I am not understanding what it is you are claiming?
​

 

[McBell]

I never meant to say that vegetarianism is morally superior, only that it is required to learn the meditation, and is more beneficial to mankind, and the world as a whole. These are facts, not opinion.

What exactly is your source for these "facts"?

 

[Ant0nio]

Ah. It seems he was incorrect in his premise; should we therefore doubt his conclusion?

And I notice the part of this statement that I've bolded is flat-out wrong as well:



In every place I know of, it's prohibited to sell any meat from a sick animal.


Sometimes.

Also, sometimes livestock that aren't killed suffer as well.

Fun fact: did you know that in many dairy farms, there's an electrified bar above the back of the cow? It's there so that when the cow hunches its back when it goes to excrete, it gets a mild electric shock and straightens out again. This prevents the cow from getting feces on its udder.

You said that milk and cheese are acceptable, right?

Milk and cheese is acceptable. Me personally, I limit my intake of dairy. I don't drink milk. I do eat cheese products every now and then. The master doesn't consume dairy products in the U.S. herself as far as I know, specifically because of how dairy cows are treated in the U.S.

 

[Ant0nio]

I do understand you frustration though.
Antonia hijacked this thread to promote his vegetarianism and preach on the cruelty of eating meat.

Again, My sole purpose of posting was to simply offer a method to prove God's existence for oneself. I never meant to go into so much detail about vegetarianism, or the cruelty of eating meat.

If you have been looking for a way to have no doubts about knowing whether God is real or not, I know where to find this way. That is the main focus of my posts, I apologize if I have offended anyone. I only wished to offer the method.

If you see it as boastful, or arrogant, please forgive me. But please just don't overlook the opportunity because of my flaws. The chance to know that God is real, and have no doubts is what this meditation offers.

You can learn more about the Quan Yin method, the convenient method, and the Master at GodsDirectContact.org: Spiritual Discovery - Quan Yin Method

 

[YmirGF]

The only reason I went into vegetarianism is because it is a requirement to learn the meditation.

As both a meditator and a omnivire for (30+ years and 50+ years, respectively) I simply cannot disagree more with this assertion. What you eat, in no way affects meditations, unless one has a penchant for "pigging out". Meditating on a very full belly will likely result in sleep rather than sublime being.

I understand that the habit of eating meat is a very hard habit to break, if you even want to break it at all. But please don't forget that the focus of my posts are to inform about a method to reach God directly. Vegetarianism is just a requirement of this method.

Are you saying that my continuous experience is somehow less because I have no issues with meat eating? :flirt:

(Note: The last question is a well baited trap, so use extreme caution in trying to answer it, if you choose to, of course.)

 

[Ant0nio]

And WHY is it required to learn the meditation?

Here is a quote from Master Ching Hai:

A lifetime commitment to a vegan or lacto-vegetarian diet is a prerequisite for initiation into the Quan Yin Method. Foods from plant sources and dairy products are permitted on this diet, but all other foods from animal sources including eggs should not be eaten. There are many reasons for this, but the most important comes from the First Precept, which tells us to refrain from taking the life of sentient beings, or "Thou shalt not kill."

Not killing or otherwise harming other living creatures is of obvious benefit for them. Less obvious is the fact that refraining from harming others is equally advantageous for ourselves. Why? Because of the law of karma. "As ye sow, so shall ye reap." When you kill, or cause others to kill for you, in order to satisfy your desire for meat, you incur a karmic debt, and this debt must eventually be repaid.

This is one reason it is required to learn the meditation.

No, they're not.

They are facts. Click Here and Here for articles about the Food and Agriculture Organization department of the United Nations explaining the detriment of raising animals for meat.

Here is the actual report from the FAO.

Also, here is an article explaining how raising animals for meat causes world hunger.

This is just scratching the surface.

I hope this helps to illustrate why being vegetarian is required to learn the meditation. It is in no way harmful to anyone, it is very beneficial to everyone.

If you have any more questions about why vegetarianism is required for the method, please feel free to ask.

 

[Ant0nio]

So, it's not morally superior, just better for the entire planet? Yeah, that makes you statement better.

I was only trying to illustrate how being vegetarian is beneficial, and how eating meat is harmful. But if you still want the benefit of the meditation, there is another method called the Convenient method. It only requires that you be vegetarain for 10 days out of the month, and the meditation is only 30 minutes a day.

And "These are facts, not opinion"? You're not serious, are you?

I'm afraid I am serious, I have posted referenced links in a previous post.

 

[Ant0nio]

Let me see if I got this right...

You are claiming that in order to know that God exists, you have to be a vegetarian?

OR

Are you claiming that in order to know God exists, you have to meditate and that you have to be a vegetarian to meditate?

OR

Is it something else and I am not understanding what it is you are claiming?
​

I'm saying, that in order to learn a method of meditation that will allow you to be able to know God exists, the requirement is to be vegetarian. Please check my first post.

 

[Ant0nio]

As both a meditator and a omnivire for (30+ years and 50+ years, respectively) I simply cannot disagree more with this assertion. What you eat, in no way affects meditations, unless one has a penchant for "pigging out". Meditating on a very full belly will likely result in sleep rather than sublime being.

What you eat does affects your experience with the Quan Yin method of meditation. The requirement to be vegetarian is for this specific method of meditation. The Quan Yin method of meditation.

Are you saying that my continuous experience is somehow less because I have no issues with meat eating? :flirt:

(Note: The last question is a well baited trap, so use extreme caution in trying to answer it, if you choose to, of course.)

When you say your continuous experience, what are you referring to? Being vegetarian raises your spiritual level. It hightens your spiritual sensitivity. It is much less burden karmically as opposed to eating meat.

If you choose to eat meat it is fine, if choose to be vegetarian it is fine. I'm not trying to force my views on anyone, but I will be stay firm when it comes to facts, and inform you of what is required to learn the Quan Yin method of meditation.

 

[Storm]

Here is a quote from Master Ching Hai:

A lifetime commitment to a vegan or lacto-vegetarian diet is a prerequisite for initiation into the Quan Yin Method. Foods from plant sources and dairy products are permitted on this diet, but all other foods from animal sources including eggs should not be eaten. There are many reasons for this, but the most important comes from the First Precept, which tells us to refrain from taking the life of sentient beings, or "Thou shalt not kill."

Not killing or otherwise harming other living creatures is of obvious benefit for them. Less obvious is the fact that refraining from harming others is equally advantageous for ourselves. Why? Because of the law of karma. "As ye sow, so shall ye reap." When you kill, or cause others to kill for you, in order to satisfy your desire for meat, you incur a karmic debt, and this debt must eventually be repaid.

This is one reason it is required to learn the meditation.

They are facts. Click Here and Here for articles about the Food and Agriculture Organization department of the United Nations explaining the detriment of raising animals for meat.

Here is the actual report from the FAO.

Also, here is an article explaining how raising animals for meat causes world hunger.

This is just scratching the surface.

I hope this helps to illustrate why being vegetarian is required to learn the meditation. It is in no way harmful to anyone, it is very beneficial to everyone.

If you have any more questions about why vegetarianism is required for the method, please feel free to ask.

You just posted a bunch of reasons why it's morally superior to be a vegetarian. I've already told you why I reject that belief. At least be honest about what you're arguing.

 

[Charity]

I must admit I have looked at the post for several days now and just realized what a good thing we got going here...

A Chance for Atheists to Recover........Sounds like it could be like the AA for the Alcoholic....

We either have the "Atheist Alcoholic" or the "Atheist Anonymus" What are they once they recover?

Here's to you AA :drunk:

Couldn't resist having a little fun
Charity

 

[fire]

1. Your choice does not--cannot--invalidate mine nor mine yours.

Maybe I just don't understand the statement on #3. If the statement is talking about the two views of atheism and theism, then the statement can not be true.
Clearly the two can not coexist. either there is a God, or there isn't. Both can't be true.

 

[YmirGF]

When you say your continuous experience, what are you referring to?

The state where subject and object are One. The state where self evaporates into pure being. I dunno, you tell me?

Being vegetarian raises your spiritual level.

I see, are you sure that it is not just an egotistical affectation? PS: There are no "levels" per se.

It hightens your spiritual sensitivity.

Really? Might I assume you have done scientific studies to discern this so-called "spiritual sensitivity"?

It is much less burden karmically as opposed to eating meat.

Karma, yes... I remember Karma, but that is all in the distant past now. I no longer have a use for Karma. Do you need my broken chains? :flirt:

If you choose to eat meat it is fine, if choose to be vegetarian it is fine. I'm not trying to force my views on anyone,

Actually you are attempting to do just that so there is little dignity in pretending that you are not.

but I will be stay firm when it comes to facts,

Oddly, I would be inclined to call them moralistic prejudices as opposed to "facts".

and inform you of what is required to learn the Quan Yin method of meditation.

Why are you hijacking this thread? If you wish to discuss Quan Yin, start a new thread.

 

[Smoke]

As both a meditator and a omnivire for (30+ years and 50+ years, respectively) I simply cannot disagree more with this assertion. What you eat, in no way affects meditations, unless one has a penchant for "pigging out".

There are a number of good reasons for being a vegetarian, although none so good that they've convinced me yet. The idea that vegetarianism is a precondition for meditation, though, is the sheerest nonsense.

If it's a requirement Ant0nio's master sets for her disciples, fine. I have no objection to that. I also have no interest in a master who sets such requirements.

 

[Smoke]

Being vegetarian raises your spiritual level. It hightens your spiritual sensitivity.

Hitler was a vegetarian, but he's not notable chiefly for his heightened spiritual sensitivity. I think it's unlikely that vegetarianism in itself does any such thing.

Vegetables are not cultivated and harvested without causing the deaths of animals -- countless animals. The Tathagata was not a vegetarian and did not require his disciples to be vegetarians. I suspect that your master has, unlike the Tathagata, snagged her pants on a nail while trying to cross the fence.

 

[Ant0nio]

You just posted a bunch of reasons why it's morally superior to be a vegetarian. I've already told you why I reject that belief. At least be honest about what you're arguing.

If you reject that it is morally superior, that is fine, well and good, I'm honestly not arguing that it is morally superior, but have you looked at the links I referenced? There is nothing about moral superiority in them. In them are facts reported by the United Nations explaining why eating meat and the meat industry itself is harmful to the world.

Ahimsa- the sanskrit term for nonviolence is related to the first precept : Refrain from taking the life of sentient beings.

Because eating meat and the meat industry causes so much harm, and causes so much suffering, the karmic toll is heavy, and it isn't allowed in order to learn the Quan Yin method.

I'm not trying to argue that eating meat is morally inferior, just that is harmful, for the animals, and for us.

And again, if being vegetarian is not to your liking you can be vegetarian for 10 days out of the month, and still get a similar benefit by using the convenient method.

If you don't want to learn the meditation at all, then thanks for reading

 

[Ant0nio]

The state where subject and object are One. The state where self evaporates into pure being. I dunno, you tell me?

You mean samahdi?

I see, are you sure that it is not just an egotistical affectation? PS: There are no "levels" per se.

No, and there are levels. 5 different levels. Physical, astral, mental, spiritual, and god consciousness.

Really? Might I assume you have done scientific studies to discern this so-called "spiritual sensitivity"?

No scientific studies, but how can science measure spirit?

Karma, yes... I remember Karma, but that is all in the distant past now. I no longer have a use for Karma. Do you need my broken chains? :flirt:

If you haven't gone past the mental level, you are still under the law of karma.

Actually you are attempting to do just that so there is little dignity in pretending that you are not.

Maybe you are right, maybe I have been and haven't even noticed it. I apologize.

Oddly, I would be inclined to call them moralistic prejudices as opposed to "facts".

I'm offering sources for my "facts"

Why are you hijacking this thread? If you wish to discuss Quan Yin, start a new thread.

I apologize, you're right. I'll go do that.

 

[Ant0nio]

Hitler was a vegetarian, but he's not notable chiefly for his heightened spiritual sensitivity. I think it's unlikely that vegetarianism in itself does any such thing.

Vegetables are not cultivated and harvested without causing the deaths of animals -- countless animals.

Some biographers claimed he may have been vegetarian, but he ate meat occasionally, therefore he wasn't vegetarian.

Can you please provide a reference for this last quoted statement?

 

[Ant0nio]

I'll create a new thread. I apologize for "hijacking" this one. But if you have any questions i'll still be happy to answer them.