A child is falling into a well: what do you do?

[PureX]

But it's the youngest generations that have a more spiritual approach to life.
And who are not afraid of death.
So it's better to save their life, so they can try to better this planet.

The oldest generations are gonna die anyway, because we are mortals, not immortals.


It was P. Levi who wrote it.

Ah! Primo Levi! Also a terrific writer!

 

[Estro Felino]

Ah! Primo Levi! Also a terrific writer!

I would also add this:
I immensely envy the elderly.
Because I think that this world has no future. There is too much egoism. Too much ego-centrism and selfishness.
So I can imagine a future in ten years or so. But beyond that...it really terrifies me.
Mankind is destroying itself out of greed.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

No...I meant people are evil and do evil because they think they won't go to Hell, if they are.
Because they don't believe in Hell.

Maybe they don't understand responsibility and consequence. Maybe some people are just wired differently.

 

[sayak83]

You immediately catch the child, of course.

Why though? Did you consider the reward from the child‘s parents before you stretched forth your hand? No, you did not. There is something inherent in you that caused you to grab the child without forethought.

Mencius, a Confucian teacher, believed this scenario showed the innate goodness of man. What say you?

It only shows that most people act altruistically under certain conditions. Human psychology is complex and many hued. Reducing it "innately good" or "innately bad" is mistaken.

 

[bobhikes]

You immediately catch the child, of course.

Why though? Did you consider the reward from the child‘s parents before you stretched forth your hand? No, you did not. There is something inherent in you that caused you to grab the child without forethought.

Mencius, a Confucian teacher, believed this scenario showed the innate goodness of man. What say you?

Not all people would immediately catch the child, some would not but most would. Mencius was right in that it shows an innate goodness in most Humans. Basically, for humans to survive the majority of humans have to have innate goodness. If that were not true as a species, we would go extinct. Unfortunately, it only needs to be a simple majority.

 

[Estro Felino]

Maybe they don't understand responsibility and consequence. Maybe some people are just wired differently.

We are all different. Exactly.

For example I cannot watch the realistic movies or documentaries where suffering and pain are portrayed. I am too sensitive because I empathize with those people. I consider certain movies unwatchable.
There are people who enjoy watching suffering or pain. A sort of sadistic pleasure.

We are all different. Sometimes we are the exact opposite of one another.

 

[PureX]

Italo Calvino ... "Marcovaldo" and "If On A Winter's Night A Traveler".

Primo Levi ... "The Periodic Table", "The Monkey's Wrench".

All very good books. But who wrote the book something about "Cold Duck Soup"? Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

We are all different. Exactly.

For example I cannot watch the realistic movies or documentaries where suffering and pain are portrayed. I am too sensitive because I empathize with those people. I consider certain movies unwatchable.
There are people who enjoy watching suffering or pain. A sort of sadistic pleasure.

We are all different. Sometimes we are the exact opposite of one another.

Sometimes people are exactly what they see in others.

 

[Estro Felino]

Sometimes people are exactly what they see in others.

Or maybe they are terrified of what the see in others and do anything not to be like them.


I mean, when I was a kid I was like Alice in Wonderland. Then I studied law, economics, and I found out how devilish and diabolical certain mechanisms of the monetary systems are.
I stopped being that Alice and I became aware. Aware and awake, and ready to do anything to counter that evil.


But you are right on what you said before: most of them are not aware of the evil they do.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Or maybe they are terrified of what the see in others and do anything not to be like them.

That would be another possibility, but that is not what I mean.

I sometimes encounter people that project their own flaws onto others and then condemn for those flaws.

That is what I meant.

I mean, when I was a kid I was like Alice in Wonderland. Then I studied law, economics, and I found out how devilish and diabolical certain mechanisms of the monetary systems are.
I stopped being that Alice and I became aware. Aware and awaken, and ready to do anything to counter that evil.

Yet another possibility.

But you are right on what you said before: most of them are not aware of the evil they do.

Some are. Many are not. And some never will.

Others do see it and change. Some see it and don't care, Still others, seeing or not, embrace it.

I think many people recognize what would be widely described as evil and do care, but are conflicted by their own frailties.

 

[Estro Felino]

Some are. Many are not. And some never will.

Others do see it and change. Some see it and don't care, Still others, seeing or not, embrace it.

I think many people recognize what would be widely described as evil and do care, but are conflicted by their own frailties.

You did get the point of this thread:
some will consider evil not to rescue that child. To ignore him is evil.
Some will consider not evil and normal to ignore him.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You did get the point of this thread:
some will consider evil not to rescue that child. To ignore him is evil.
Some will consider not evil and normal to ignore him.

I did.

 

[Estro Felino]

I sometimes encounter people that project their own flaws onto others and then condemn for those flaws.

Unfortunately in the US the double-standardism is unleashed. It's lose.

I have seen politicians accuse Trump of stealing the elections in 2016 and the very same politicians calling paranoiacs and conspiracy theorists those who used to say that the 2020 elections were stolen

I don't want to sound too jingoistic...but I have never seen such impudent double-standardism in Europe.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Unfortunately in the US the double-standardism is unleashed. It's lose.

I don't think it is confined to the US.

I have seen politicians accuse Trump of stealing the elections in 2016 and the very same politicians calling paranoiacs and conspiracy theorists those who used to say that the 2020 elections were stolen

I don't generally discuss politics and I am not aware of politicians claiming Trump stole the 2016 election. Certainly nothing to the extent that Trump and his followers claim the 2020 election was stolen from him. But Trump is a good example of what I mean by projection. Also of selfish evil as I see it.

I don't want to sound too jingoistic...but I have never seen such impudent double-standardism in Europe.

Given the mixed feelings I see between countries regarding economics, immigration and politics, I'm not sure I could agree. But it is true that I don't immerse myself in the politics of Europe to have a great knowledge of the subject.

 

[PureX]

We are all different. Exactly.

For example I cannot watch the realistic movies or documentaries where suffering and pain are portrayed. I am too sensitive because I empathize with those people. I consider certain movies unwatchable.
There are people who enjoy watching suffering or pain. A sort of sadistic pleasure.

We are all different. Sometimes we are the exact opposite of one another.

I have a long time friend that used to like watching those nature shows where they would show animals attacking and killing other animals for their own survival. And although I understood that this is the "way of life", so to speak, I couldn't really understand why my friend liked watching it. And I puzzled about it for a long time. I even wondered if I were the one being 'weak-minded' and unrealistic by not wanting to be a witness to this reality of our existence.

Eventually I came to understand that the truth was far less philosophical. My friend had grown up in a violent abusive household. He, his mother, and sister had regularly been beaten by his father, and he was sexually molested by a cousin and by the family priest. In the world he grew up in the stronger did whatever they wanted to the weaker, and no one ever came to help the weak out or to change anything. People talked about righteousness and fairness and kindness and all that, but they did nothing. Even the family priest was a predator when he was in a position of dominance and no one else was looking. So this was just the reality of the world as my friend experienced and understood it. Why would he have ever thought any different?

Eventually he came to work in various stock brokerage houses where he watched all the same predatory mayhem being played out, but now with money. Money is power in the modern human world and the more of it one has, the more able they are to use it to take money from those who have less. That was the whole game. And my friend understood that if you're a servant of predators, they tend to look elsewhere for someone to pray on. Not that they won't eat you, too, just that they'll choose someone else, first. Needless to say he became a life-long republican because to him, this predatory power-dynamic was as real and inevitable as gravity. It was absolute and unquestionable. And when people grow up being victimized, as he was, they have a tendency to become victimizers as adults, to whatever extent they are able. Because that's how they 'get their power back'. But to my friend's credit he did not become an abuser like his father. But to avoit it, he never married or had children. Because he knew that if he did, he would have become his father. He felt that same rage inside. So instead he'd sit around by himself in the evenings watching nature programs showing animals killing and eating each other. And he'd get a bit of a sick thrill from it. Just as he would get a sick thrill hearing the stories of how some very clever rich guy played the markets and scored millions. Or how the republicans would humiliate those phony ideological democrats on some issue. For him, it was the way of the world, and it's better to be on the side of the winners, instead of the losers, because morality had nothing to do with anything. Morality was just a whitewash we thew on the predatory truth of things.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't think it is confined to the US.

Of course.
In Europe too...but maybe a bit less.

I don't generally discuss politics and I am not aware of politicians claiming Trump stole the 2016 election. Certainly nothing to the extent that Trump and his followers claim the 2020 election was stolen from him. But Trump is a good example of what I mean by projection. Also of selfish evil as I see it.

I did mean that both parties accuse each other of the same flaws and the same misdeeds.
I didn't mean one is better than the other.

Sorry...maybe I am overgeneralizing.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Of course.
In Europe too...but maybe a bit less.

I did mean that both parties accuse each other of the same flaws and the same misdeeds.
I didn't mean one is better than the other.

Sorry...maybe I am overgeneralizing.

That part I do agree with. At least regarding the extremes of political parties. Perhaps that isn't as prevalent in Europe.

In my mind, there are groups of people that are pretty much the same as each other, but have different positions that they embrace.

 

[Estro Felino]

I have a long time friend that used to like watching those nature shows where they would show animals attacking and killing other animals for their own survival. And although I understood that this is the "way of life", so to speak, I couldn't really understand why my friend liked watching it. And I puzzled about it for a long time. I even wondered if I were the one being 'weak-minded' and unrealistic by not wanting to be a witness to this reality of our existence.

Eventually I came to understand that the truth was far less philosophical. My friend had grown up in a violent abusive household. He, his mother, and sister had regularly been beaten by his father, and he was sexually molested by a cousin and by the family priest. In the world he grew up in the stronger did whatever they wanted to the weaker, and no one ever came to help the weak out or to change anything. People talked about righteousness and fairness and kindness and all that, but they did nothing. Even the family priest was a predator when he was in a position of dominance and no one else was looking. So this was just the reality of the world as my friend experienced and understood it. Why would he have ever thought any different?

Eventually he came to work in various stock brokerage houses where he watched all the same predatory mayhem being played out, but now with money. Money is power in the modern human world and the more of it one has, the more able they are to use it to take money from those who have less. That was the whole game. And my friend understood that if you're a servant of predators, they tend to look elsewhere for someone to pray on. Not that they won't eat you, too, just that they'll choose someone else, first. Needless to say he became a life-long republican because to him, this predatory power-dynamic was as real and inevitable as gravity. It was absolute and unquestionable. And when people grow up being victimized, as he was, they have a tendency to become victimizers as adults, to whatever extent they are able. Because that's how they 'get their power back'. But to my friend's credit he did not become an abuser like his father. But to avoit it, he never married or had children. Because he knew that if he did, he would have become his father. He felt that same rage inside. So instead he'd sit around by himself in the evenings watching nature programs showing animals killing and eating each other. And he'd get a bit of a sick thrill from it. Just as he would get a sick thrill hearing the stories of how some very clever rich guy played the markets and scored millions. Or how the republicans would humiliate those phony ideological democrats on some issue. For him, it was the way of the world, and it's better to be on the side of the winners, instead of the losers, because morality had nothing to do with anything. Morality was just a whitewash we thew on the predatory truth of things.

Interesting.
That's a very sad story, and I can see how evil traumatizes people and change them.
It makes them lose the innocence.

But whenever I think of evil, I think of the will of destroying other people's lives.

 

[Estro Felino]

That part I do agree with. At least regarding the extremes of political parties. Perhaps that isn't as prevalent in Europe.

There is less dualism.
We have tens of parties...go figure.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So it's better to save their life, so they can try to better this planet.

You're not young either so you first with this better to save the young people.