A Chrisitan accpets Islam

[sandandfoam]

The Irish?

European Christian

 

[YmirGF]

Sorry, my original point was a bit ambiguously expressed.

I wasn't meaning that the Arabs created a vast empire simply based on being jolly nice chaps with an easy charm and witty repartee, more that they weren't actually that into forcibly converting the population to Islam.

The 'convert or die' type attitude that is often associated with Muslim conquerers was never actually that prevalent during the Arab conquests. They tended to be happy to tax people for the privilege of keeping their own faith. Certain leader actually tried to prevent people converting to Islam as it was damaging their tax base.

This isn't to present them as bastions of chivalry and progressive, egalitarian tolerance, just that in the more specific sense of 'spread by the sword' (i.e. forced conversion on pain of death), Christians such as Charlemagne actually have a worse record.

That's the funny thing about how many folks retell historical events. Things are always left out, some aspects focused on and other aspects ignored or minimized. I do agree that Charlemagne was a rather nasty brute, but comparing the Muslim advance across the world was not as warm and fuzzy as many would have us believe. As should be expected, some Muslim generals and leaders were in fact quite civilized, especially for their time, but others were often brutal - beyond the pale - viewing those they encountered as less than human, much like those who rampaged through Africa and North and South America.

Often adversaries were told to:

1. Convert to Islam (and all would be peace, love and beards)
2. Keep their religion and live in servitude to their new Muslim masters whist paying a very aggressive tax so they knew they had lost
3. To stand and fight

For example, while some might argue how progressive these options were, others might also argue why the option to "Bugger off and just leave us alone" was not an equally valid choice. Then again, the Muslim forces were under the delusion that they were spreading the word of god and doing god's will on earth. A unseemly supposition, at best, and quite the motivational force, at worst.

 

[YmirGF]

Question. What, exactly, is the difference between that and a bunch of warriors asking for the Berserk? They asked their God to bring them victory in battle(I'd assume).

No. The point the writer conveyed was the stark contrast. One moment they were fighting tooth and nail, the next moment they gathered and did their little prayer thing and then they attacked with such ferocity that the writer, and no doubt others on the battle field, were stunned by the contrast. Think of someone screaming at you nose to nose, the phone rings and calmly they pick up and have a sweet and cheerful conversation, then put down the phone and carry on the screaming full tilt but with renewed vigor. If you have seen this phenomena in real life you will understand how chilling it is.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I would consider large massacres to be bloodshed.

I think the definition of bloodshed is the shedding of blood - not only of a large number of victims.

Like the incident with the saxons where 4500 pagans were killed. but i am not familiar with any such bloodshed happening during the conversion of scandinavia. as i said, the christianization of the north was far more based on a top-down undertaking where the king and royalty would be conviced christian first and then would convert their pagan subjects next.

And, again, why do you just assume that once the Scandinavian kings converted their subjects just blindly went along with it? They didn't. They resisted. It took much longer for the North to be Christianised than it did for, say, Saxon England.

Religious differences even led Scandinavian lords to fight one another - Harold I of Denmark attempted to force Christianity on Haakon Sigurdsson, king of Norway which led to the latter breaking their alliance. Harold's Danish invasion force was defeated in battle soon after.

 

[Augustus]

I do agree that Charlemagne was a rather nasty brute, but comparing the Muslim advance across the world was not as warm and fuzzy as many would have us believe.

I didn't suggest they were though. Was just making a narrow point about forced conversions.

One moment they were fighting tooth and nail, the next moment they gathered and did their little prayer thing and then they attacked with such ferocity that the writer, and no doubt others on the battle field, were stunned by the contrast.

Why didn't the opponents just kill them?

 

[YmirGF]

Why didn't the opponents just kill them?

My understanding is that they had not witnessed the Muslim prayer ritual prior to this and were confused. People didn't just stop, en masse, in the battlefield, haul out little rugs, all point in one direction and begin a robotic prayer that went on for some time.

 

[Vishvavajra]

"Not a single verse of the Quran that has been disproved by science," eh?

The Quran makes a big deal out of the belief that matter is inert and therefore requires divine intervention in order to animate it. That's a common ancient belief but contrary to everything modern science tells us about the physical world.

As one would expect, ancient scriptures demonstrate an ancient person's understanding of the world. The Quran is no exception in that regard. That doesn't say anything about its value one way or the other, but it does mean the fellow in the video's argument is stupid and that he's not being intellectually honest. Folks ought not to try to sell their views under false pretenses.

 

[idea]

In other news... they are out destroying ancient archaeology sites again... It really is sickening.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/isis-blew-ancient-temple-palmyra-180956383/?no-ist

"Palmyra, which is located near Damascus, has held UNESCO World Heritage status since 1980 as “one of the most important cultural centres of the ancient world.” Stack writes that fighters from the Islamic State destroyed the temple of Baalshamin, which is known as one of Palmyra’s “most grand and well-preserved structures,” with explosives.... built in 17 A.D. and dedicated to Baal, a Phoenician god. The temple was blown up in part because the Islamic State believes that antiquities that pre-date Islam must be destroyed, writes Stack. (The group is not above selling some antiquities to fund its operation, however, as The Washington Post’s Daniela Dean reports — in February, the group smuggled Syrian artifacts into Britain to raise money.)"

 

[paarsurrey]

How in the world do Muslims equate the Holy Spirit with Muhammad? They really butcher Christian theology.

Please put this question to Dr.Zakir Naik. Let us see what does he answer. Will you? Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Sounds like what the early Church did with various Pagan cultures - just renamed important figures like deities or folk heroes and adapted them slightly to make the imported beliefs sound more appealing.

I appreciate that that may read like an accusation from a Pagan to a Catholic but it's not meant in that way. What I'm getting at is it wouldn't be encountered like this if it wasn't such a successful method.

If pagan people were so intelligent; why didn't they present it then to the followers of Jesus?
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

you need to give clear evidences about your Wahabi and apostates and gays and anti-semitic , and voilence throughtout world .

Wahabi is official label , it just mention to a Muslim allow killing Muslim (Takfereen) , because Abd Wahab (scholar) allow to killing anti-Saudi regime before 40 to 50 years ago .

Naik is not Saudi , he is indian

Right.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Oh, I know what you mean. But at least we admit that that happened and those figures have either been removed from the calendar of Saints or have just become part of Catholic culture. Catholicism is easily syncretized with local cultures.

But what that guy in the video is doing is just blatantly misinterpreting a verse. It's so annoying.

I don't see any mis-interpretation.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

He references the "Spirit of Truth", which is from John 16:13. It is Jesus talking about the coming of the Holy Spirit. But many Muslims, including Naik, misinterpret it and say it's a prophecy about Muhammad. It has nothing to do with Muhammad.
http://biblehub.com/john/16-13.htm
The Bible reveals the Divinity of Christ many times. There's so many verses declaring Christ as God.
Here's a list:
http://www.openbible.info/topics/jesus_being_god
The word "Trinity" doesn't have to appear in the Bible. That's just what the dogma is called. The Church Fathers took what the Bible said, studied it and laid out what the text was saying. This lead to them formalizing the dogma that God is One God in Three Persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Because that's what the text points to. They didn't make it up, as you seem to think.

Sure it is a prophecy about Muhammad.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I was also shocked to hear how christians destroyed astronomy in Greece. Tons of books were burnt as they were interfering with God's business.

That was a very bad thing to do by the Christians.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Who cares that atheism is growing in the West? The birthrate has fallen through the floor in most developed nations, so the population is going to plummet, anyway. The center of Christianity will just shift to Africa and Asia. Christians tend to shine the most when we're the minority, anyway.

I think It is wishful thinking of the Christianity.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

They learn to believe that 1) christianity is ridiculous. christianity is a religion. - therefore all religions are ridiculous. 2) science leads to atheism and science is what makes us civilized. - therefore atheism is what makes us civilized. 3) science gives us all the answers in life. religion does not give us any scientific answers. therefore religion is artificial.

these belief/arguments are all nonsense once you delve into them though.

That is a wrong premise.
Christianity is a myth, if it is proved wrong, one should look for the truthful religion.
Science does not claim to give answers to all the questions about life, by definition it cannot.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Science is not able to give us all the answers we need. That's why religions exist.

I agree with you.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

many Islamic scholars commented on , where ?
I explained my view about your claim (Muslims are leaving Islam)
I think Islam is top religion now , if not now it will be very soon , because most of Christians become athiests .
I believe it's just because ISIS and others terrorists groupes crimes , the convert to Islam is become too slow .

I agree with you. ISIS and the like are hindrance in spread of peaceful Islam.
Reards

 

[Sees]

If pagan people were so intelligent; why didn't they present it then to the followers of Jesus?
Regards

Could you expound on this more?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Please put this question to Dr.Zakir Naik. Let us see what does he answer. Will you? Please
Regards

Why don't you ask him a question about your own sect of Islam? He would see you as a heretic and probably support you having your head lopped off. Lol. I don't care to ask that idiot and liar anything.

I don't see any mis-interpretation.
Regards

Learn how to read, then.

Sure it is a prophecy about Muhammad.
Regards

Like I said, learn how to read.

I think It is wishful thinking of the Christianity.
Regards

Nah, it's just reality.