A Christian must have a full beard

[Koldo]

Do you think Christian women who have short hair (which could be for any number of legitimate reasons) will be denied salvation on that basis?

No. Are Christians only supposed to do what is strictly necessary for salvation though? Also no.

 

[Kathryn]

In what countries does a woman looks more like a woman when they keep their hair short rather than long?

Well, in the US if they have crazy hair like me.

 

[Tony B]

No. Are Christians only supposed to do what is strictly necessary for salvation though? Also no.

True, but perhaps God would rather we concentrate on more important things than hair length. Jesus himself defended breaking the Jewish law when there was a justification for doing so.

 

[Koldo]

Well, in the US if they have crazy hair like me.

Crazy hair doesn't make anyone any less of a woman. You may have an aesthetic preference for short hair, but that is an entirely different matter.

 

[Koldo]

True, but perhaps God would rather we concentrate on more important things than hair length. Jesus himself defended breaking the Jewish law when there was a justification for doing so.

And the justification on this case for not adhering to what is clearly stated in the New Testament (not in the Old Testament) would be... ?
Consider the rule, rather than the exception, where most woman that keep their hair short do so just because they prefer it that way.

 

[Tony B]

And the justification on this case for not adhering to what is clearly stated in the New Testament (not in the Old Testament) would be... ?
Consider the rule, rather than the exception, where most woman that keep their hair short do so just because they prefer it that way.

Well that depends on the woman doesn't it, she may be undergoing cancer treatment and not have any choice, or she may have a heath and safety reason for her work, or any number of reasons, that's between the women concerned and God. We'll all be judged at the appointed time so we'll all have to answer for our own actions.

 

[Koldo]

Well that depends on the woman doesn't it, she may be undergoing cancer treatment and not have any choice,

Exception.

or she may have a heath and safety reason for her work,

Exception.

or any number of reasons, that's between the women concerned and God. We'll all be judged at the appointed time so we'll all have to answer for our own actions.

I asked you to provide a justification for the rule, rather than the exception. And the reason you have not provided any is simple: there is none.
The fact is that most Christians simply ignore what is written in the bible whenever it is convenient to do so.

 

[Tony B]

Exception.



Exception.



I asked you to provide a justification for the rule, rather than the exception. And the reason you have not provided any is simple: there is none.
The fact is that most Christians simply ignore what is written in the bible whenever it is convenient to do so.

No, you didn't ask me to provide a justification for the rule, you asked for a justification of why the rule could not be followed, and I gave you several, I also stated that Jesus himself justified ignoring a rule, because he did. Are you seriously arguing that your hair falling out is not a good reason for not following this rule, or because you are ordered to for work? ( Remember Romans 13? ). Your last statement is simply unsubstantiated hyperbole, you cannot know what 'most Christians' even do, unless of course you have some form of corroborated evidence on that? I'm going to take an educated guess that you haven't.

 

[Koldo]

No, you didn't ask me to provide a justification for the rule, you asked for a justification of why the rule could not be followed, and I gave you several, I also stated that Jesus himself justified ignoring a rule, because he did. Are you seriously arguing that your hair falling out is not a good reason for not following this rule, or because you are ordered to for work? ( Remember Romans 13? ). Your last statement is simply unsubstantiated hyperbole, you cannot know what 'most Christians' even do, unless of course you have some form of corroborated evidence on that? I'm going to take an educated guess that you haven't.

First things first. What I have said is: Consider the rule, rather than the exception, where most woman that keep their hair short do so just because they prefer it that way.

In other words, what I am saying is that the reason as to why most Christian women with short hair keep it like that has to do with aesthetical preference. @Kathryn is a perfect example. If you doubt my assessment, just ask around and tell me if I am wrong. This is what I am calling the rule. The exception would be, for example, a woman undergoing cancer treatment. Obviously, this exception is a peculiar situation in itself that would justify keeping a short hair (and even shaving her head) since the treatment is destroying her hair.

What I have asked you is what justification is there for a Christian woman choosing to keep her hair short when she is doing it out of aesthetical preference. You have not provided any because there is none.

 

[Tony B]

First things first. What I have said is: Consider the rule, rather than the exception, where most woman that keep their hair short do so just because they prefer it that way.

In other words, what I am saying is that the reason as to why most Christian women with short hair keep it like that has to do with aesthetical preference. @Kathryn is a perfect example. If you doubt my assessment, just ask around and tell me if I am wrong. This is what I am calling the rule. The exception would be, for example, a woman undergoing cancer treatment. Obviously, this exception is a peculiar situation in itself that would justify keeping a short hair (and even shaving her head) since the treatment is destroying her hair.

What I have asked you is what justification is there for a Christian woman choosing to keep her hair short when she is doing it out of aesthetical preference. You have not provided any because there is none.

I know what you're asking, and the real issue here is one of importance and how God would view this. At no point does Paul state that this issue is a sin, it's a cultural reference of the time, whilst also supporting the essential message that men should look like men and women should look like women. If it was a sin the Bible would be very clear on this, so no woman is transgressing God's law in this matter. Where it would matter is if a woman is specifically trying to look like a man, and vice versa, this is not something that is in accordance with the Biblical teachings.

 

[Eliana]

Why is it that the Christians who act as if they really care about the rules in Old Testament always focus on stuff like clothing and tattoos, but never focus on the rules about charity and social justice?

Because most evangelicals have never read the bible, and even if you you tell them what it says they wave it off. They have this theology that the Torah no longer applies because Jesus, but when attacking gays/women/"liberals"/whatever they suddenly become sticklers for it. Their favourite chestnut is "Not perfect just forgiven" which, translated, means "I don't have to follow anything G-D or Jesus said because I said the magic words. I still get to apply them to other people at my whim, however."

 

[Tony B]

Because most evangelicals have never read the bible, and even if you you tell them what it says they wave it off. They have this theology that the Torah no longer applies because Jesus, but when attacking gays/women/"liberals"/whatever they suddenly become sticklers for it. Their favourite chestnut is "Not perfect just forgiven" which, translated, means "I don't have to follow anything G-D or Jesus said because I said the magic words. I still get to apply them to other people at my whim, however."

I literally have never met a single Christian who is like that, so based on the preposition that anyone can claim anything for an entire group of people on here I can safely say all atheists like to talk about morals but never actually have any, see how that works?

 

[Koldo]

I know what you're asking, and the real issue here is one of importance and how God would view this. At no point does Paul state that this issue is a sin, it's a cultural reference of the time, whilst also supporting the essential message that men should look like men and women should look like women.

It is not a matter of cultural reference at all. This is clearly stated. Period.

KJV:
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

NIV:
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

ASV:
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

If it was a sin the Bible would be very clear on this, so no woman is transgressing God's law in this matter. Where it would matter is if a woman is specifically trying to look like a man, and vice versa, this is not something that is in accordance with the Biblical teachings.

I won't dispute that it is not a sin, however:

1) This doesn't mean that people are supposed to freely ignore the clearly laid out instructions.
2) Why do you say it would matter if a man is specifically trying to look a woman, and vice versa?

 

[Kathryn]

The only time anyone ever mistook me for a guy, I had very long hair. I look like a woman, believe me.

 

[Tony B]

It is not a matter of cultural reference at all. This is clearly stated. Period.

Because it is clearly stated doesn't refute that it's a cultural reference, neither does quoting different versions of the Bible. Paul was addressing a Church, so it definitely needs to be seen in the context of the time and culture in that Church.

KJV:
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

NIV:
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

ASV:
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.



I won't dispute that it is not a sin, however:

Good, because nowhere in scripture is it written that it's a sin.

1) This doesn't mean that people are supposed to freely ignore the clearly laid out instructions.

So you think everyone should follow every cultural reference and difference in the Bible? like slavery? or other such anachronisms? How do you like;

"The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."

Corinthians 14: 34-35

Do we stick to that now? no, it's a cultural reference that was prevalent at the time, nor is it a sin for women to speak in Churches, so we use our God given discernment to act in a way that Jesus will approve of, because he had female disciples.

2) Why do you say it would matter if a man is specifically trying to look a woman, and vice versa?

It would matter because the roles of men and women are clearly defined in the Bible.

“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God"

Deuteronomy 2:5

That seems pretty clear to me.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because most evangelicals have never read the bible, and even if you you tell them what it says they wave it off. They have this theology that the Torah no longer applies because Jesus, but when attacking gays/women/"liberals"/whatever they suddenly become sticklers for it. Their favourite chestnut is "Not perfect just forgiven" which, translated, means "I don't have to follow anything G-D or Jesus said because I said the magic words. I still get to apply them to other people at my whim, however."

Sure... but then we get people like the OP, who are very invested in what Leviticus says, but just ignore all the bits about stuff like "pay your labourers a fair wage" and "treat foreigners in your country with respect and courtesy."

I mean, a lot of this is in the specific chapters he cited.

 

[Muffled]

I believe Christians cannot look the way they want,
but the way God wants them to.
I will mention Bible verses to prove this.

How a male Christian must look like:
a full beard,
no bald head,
do not shorten the sides of the hair on the head or beard,
no long hair,
no tattoos,
only decent clothes,
men's clothing only.

How a female Christian must look like:
no beard,
no bald head,
long hair,
no tattoos,
only decent clothes,
women's clothing only,
she must cover herself, that means,
no tight clothing,
and no nudity.

Sources: Leviticus 19:27, 21:25; 1Corinthians 11:14-15,

Of course, there can be natural exceptions,
for example, someone cannot have a beard or hair on their head.
Such a person is excused.

I believe that is nonsense.

 

[Muffled]

Good grief mate .. tell me we are not going to follow levitical law .. "Please" -- Pretty please .. with sugar on top !

Let us hearken not to the covenant of lord YHWH .. nor that of Lord Jealous .. the second replacing the first but, instead let us look to the God of Jesus .. "our father who art in heaven .. Hallowed be thy name" ... and with this God make thy covenant ..




Oi Oi Oi -- let us not hearken to to the Pseudepigrapha nor the Pious fraud .. but to "The Word" .. of our God .. delivered to us through Jesus .. via the spirit of the lord .. of which Brother 2 Timothy is not.

I am ony 1% Jewish let alone a Levite.

 

[Muffled]

I do enjoy being part of religions that don't have nonsensical or sexist dress codes. Or really any dress codes. Pagans are generally cool with just showing up naked. Except if it is hot or cold, then we get concerned about your safety.

Weren't some of the Greek gods hot for orgies. It does not seem worth emulating.

 

[Quintessence]

Weren't some of the Greek gods hot for orgies. It does not seem worth emulating.

I'm not a Hellenic Pagan, so I wouldn't be the one to ask. But in general Pagan cultures don't sex shame. That's a very puritanical Christian thing that, because of their cultural hegemony, has become understood as normal somehow. Suits me fine as an asexual prude who thinks fornication is utterly disgusting.