A conversation with a Muslim on Christmas

[firedragon]

A: So what if I wish a Christian Merry Christmas?
B: Then you are condoning Christmas.
A: No. I am just wishing him for his celebration, not mine.
B: But by wishing him you are agreeing that Jesus was born on 25th December.
A: No. Even many modern day Christians dont believe that he was born on 25th December. Then shouldnt they deny wishing themselves as well? So it's just a wish, not agreeing to anything. You dont have to agree. You just wish them for their celebration.
B: But they are following Christmas and wishing themselves believing Jesus was not like us, he was son of God. Thats Shirk. So you are agreeing with them by wishing them.
A: How does me wishing someone Merry Christmas validate their theological beliefs? Didn't in your own ahadith the prophet say to the Jews to continue celebrating their Ashura of Musa Alaihissalaam?
B: But the Jews are monotheists.
A: But the Christians are Ahlul baith. And dont you call Shia's kafir while celebrating the Ashura of Hussain ibn ali radhiallahu anhu? Dont you both celebrate it? If they are kafir, why dont you reject everything they do? Its the same logic you are using against a simple wish. I am only wishing a Christian, i am not celebrating as the birthday Jesus Christ. Arent you practicing a kind of hypocrisy?
B: See the Ashura is only Sunnah, not fardh.
A: OMG. Did i say wishing merry christmas is fardh?

B: Okay, don't you think that by participating in a sentiment with the Christian you are partially or fully condoning their practice of worshiping Jesus as God?
A: So you are contending that "Participating with a Christian is condoning their theology"?
B: Yes.
A: But the Qur'an says you can have a Christians food. So are you saying God is allowing you to eat their food, be a guest at their home, isnt that participating?
B: Food is just food.
A: What about marriage? The Quran allows you to marry them! Isnt that participating?
B: But thats Christians who dont believe Jesus is God.
A: No. The Quran only says you can marry them. It doesn't say "Christians who dont believe Jesus is God". You are making things up.
B: But Allah admonishes them for being Christian.
A: But God also says that they will be saved if they believe in God.
B: Thats if they believe God is one, not three.
A: No. God in Quran tells you they believe in three. But he still says they will be saved. You made that up too. Knowing they believe in three he tells you they will be saved. You are making things up. A lot.
B. But i my Alim told me.
A: True. But you have a brain. Think.
B: You are a kafir.

I rest my case.

Oh, Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it by the way. Peace be upon you all.

Assalamu Alaikum.

 

[sooda]

A: So what if I wish a Christian Merry Christmas?
B: Then you are condoning Christmas.
A: No. I am just wishing him for his celebration, not mine.
B: But by wishing him you are agreeing that Jesus was born on 25th December.
A: No. Even many modern day Christians dont believe that he was born on 25th December. Then shouldnt they deny wishing themselves as well? So it's just a wish, not agreeing to anything. You dont have to agree. You just wish them for their celebration.
B: But they are following Christmas and wishing themselves believing Jesus was not like us, he was son of God. Thats Shirk. So you are agreeing with them by wishing them.
A: How does me wishing someone Merry Christmas validate their theological beliefs? Didn't in your own ahadith the prophet say to the Jews to continue celebrating their Ashura of Musa Alaihissalaam?
B: But the Jews are monotheists.
A: But the Christians are Ahlul baith. And dont you call Shia's kafir while celebrating the Ashura of Hussain ibn ali radhiallahu anhu? Dont you both celebrate it? If they are kafir, why dont you reject everything they do? Its the same logic you are using against a simple wish. I am only wishing a Christian, i am not celebrating as the birthday Jesus Christ. Arent you practicing a kind of hypocrisy?
B: See the Ashura is only Sunnah, not fardh.
A: OMG. Did i say wishing merry christmas is fardh?

B: Okay, don't you think that by participating in a sentiment with the Christian you are partially or fully condoning their practice of worshiping Jesus as God?
A: So you are contending that "Participating with a Christian is condoning their theology"?
B: Yes.
A: But the Qur'an says you can have a Christians food. So are you saying God is allowing you to eat their food, be a guest at their home, isnt that participating?
B: Food is just food.
A: What about marriage? The Quran allows you to marry them! Isnt that participating?
B: But thats Christians who dont believe Jesus is God.
A: No. The Quran only says you can marry them. It doesn't say "Christians who dont believe Jesus is God". You are making things up.
B: But Allah admonishes them for being Christian.
A: But God also says that they will be saved if they believe in God.
B: Thats if they believe God is one, not three.
A: No. God in Quran tells you they believe in three. But he still says they will be saved. You made that up too. Knowing they believe in three he tells you they will be saved. You are making things up. A lot.
B. But i my Alim told me.
A: True. But you have a brain. Think.
B: You are a kafir.

I rest my case.

Oh, Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it by the way. Peace be upon you all.

Assalamu Alaikum.

We used to have a life sized manger scene at the ballfield every Christmas in Arabia with angels on the roof, a choir and real camels, goats and donkeys... also the wise men.

The local Arabs helped us manage the livestock..

It was quite beautiful.. spectacular actually.

 

[firedragon]

We used to have a life sized manger scene at the ballfield every Christmas in Arabia with angels on the roof, a choir and real camels, goats and donkeys... also the wise men.

The local Arabs helped us manage the livestock..

It was quite beautiful.. spectacular actually.

Really? Where is that?

 

[Harel13]

Interesting...
How did Jews get dragged into this?

 

[exchemist]

We used to have a life sized manger scene at the ballfield every Christmas in Arabia with angels on the roof, a choir and real camels, goats and donkeys... also the wise men.

The local Arabs helped us manage the livestock..

It was quite beautiful.. spectacular actually.

In what country? The UAE or Oman, perhaps? I can scarcely believe it could have been Saudi Arabia! I once took a huge risk by smuggling a Christmas pudding into Saudi.

This reminds me: I once caught the last flight out of Riyadh on Christmas Eve, back to Abu Dhabi (I lived in Dubai at the time). The customs officer asked me where I had come from so I told him Riyadh. He decided there was - obviously - no need to inspect my luggage for alcohol or pornography, and by way of conversation he asked me,"How you like Saudi Arabia?"

I looked him meaningfully in the eye and replied "It's good to be back.". He smiled, shook my hand and said "Haha, Happy Chrrristmas!"

I shall always remember that exchange with affection.

 

[sooda]

In what country? The UAE or Oman, perhaps? I can scarcely believe it could have been Saudi Arabia! I once took a huge risk by smuggling a Christmas pudding into Saudi.

This reminds me: I once caught the last flight out of Riyadh on Christmas Eve, back to Abu Dhabi (I lived in Dubai at the time). The customs officer asked me where I had come from so I told him Riyadh. He decided there was - obviously - no need to inspect my luggage for alcohol or pornography, and by way of conversation he asked me,"How you like Saudi Arabia?"

I looked him meaningfully in the eye and replied "It's good to be back.". He smiled, shook my hand and said "Haha, Happy Chrrristmas!"

I shall always remember that exchange with affection.

In Arabia... We had a street called Christmas Tree Circle that was always decorated with a giant tree of lights strung on wire.

When were you there? I used to buy the prettiest Christmas cards in the souq.

You thought a Christmas pudding was risky?

Saudi Aramco World : Christmas In Dhahran

 

[firedragon]

In what country? The UAE or Oman, perhaps? I can scarcely believe it could have been Saudi Arabia! I once took a huge risk by smuggling a Christmas pudding into Saudi.

This reminds me: I once caught the last flight out of Riyadh on Christmas Eve, back to Abu Dhabi (I lived in Dubai at the time). The customs officer asked me where I had come from so I told him Riyadh. He decided there was - obviously - no need to inspect my luggage for alcohol or pornography, and by way of conversation he asked me,"How you like Saudi Arabia?"

I looked him meaningfully in the eye and replied "It's good to be back.". He smiled, shook my hand and said "Haha, Happy Chrrristmas!"

I shall always remember that exchange with affection.

Its strange you said this. Strange you would say "no need to inspect my luggage for alcohol or pornography". You mean in whole sale? Because they never check for those things. Its not banned or anything. Pornography as an industry is banned of course but they never check for those matters. And alcohol is freely available unless someone is transporting an excess.

Anyway, its not important. Cheers.

 

[firedragon]

Interesting...
How did Jews get dragged into this?

As an example.

 

[Harel13]

As an example.

Yeah, I know. It's just funny: a conversation with a Muslim on an inherently Christian topic, and somehow Jews get dragged in (regardless how).

 

[sooda]

Really? Where is that?

In Arabia.. They were still celebrating Christmas in 2012-2015.. Its all about mutual respect and goodwill.

1. Christmas in Saudi Arabia: Cheerful but chaste - The ...
   https://www.jpost.com/Features/In-Thespotlight/Christmas-in-Saudi-Arabia-Cheerful-but...
   Dec 25, 2011 · Christmas celebrations in some regions of Saudi Arabia follow a similar pattern with varying degrees of success. Riyadh and the rural villages and towns are barren of any signs of Christmas.
   
   
2. How people celebrate Christmas in Saudi Arabia? - Life in ...
   https://lifeinsaudiarabia.net/how-christmas-is-celebrated-in-saudi
   Christians living in Saudi Arabia can celebrate their festivals including Christmas in Saudi Arabia. Muslims are in majority here and Islam is the official religion of the state. Muslims tend to enjoy Islamic law, they are free to celebrate their festivals and are entertained with many such facilities.
   

 

[sooda]

Really? Where is that?

In Arabia.. They were still celebrating Christmas in 2012-2015.. Its all about mutual respect and goodwill.

1. Christmas in Saudi Arabia: Cheerful but chaste - The ...
   https://www.jpost.com/Features/In-Thespotlight/Christmas-in-Saudi-Arabia-Cheerful-but...
   Dec 25, 2011 · Christmas celebrations in some regions of Saudi Arabia follow a similar pattern with varying degrees of success. Riyadh and the rural villages and towns are barren of any signs of Christmas.
   
   
2. How people celebrate Christmas in Saudi Arabia? - Life in ...
   https://lifeinsaudiarabia.net/how-christmas-is-celebrated-in-saudi
   Christians living in Saudi Arabia can celebrate their festivals including Christmas in Saudi Arabia. Muslims are in majority here and Islam is the official religion of the state. Muslims tend to enjoy Islamic law, they are free to celebrate their festivals and are entertained with many such facilities.
   

 

[firedragon]

Yeah, I know. It's just funny: a conversation with a Muslim on an inherently Christian topic, and somehow Jews get dragged in (regardless how).

Because its a relevant analogy and its an Islamic Hadith that this Sunni Muslim in the conversation follows. If you dont understand that and you intend to find some kind of strange Jew hatred or something which is not there you have to really really try hard and do a lot of inference.

Peace.

 

[LuisDantas]

Thanks for the OP.

It helps me in understanding some of the most difficult traits that I sometimes find in certain believers.

 

[firedragon]

In Arabia.. They were still celebrating Christmas in 2012-2015.. Its all about mutual respect and goodwill.

1. Christmas in Saudi Arabia: Cheerful but chaste - The ...
   https://www.jpost.com/Features/In-Thespotlight/Christmas-in-Saudi-Arabia-Cheerful-but...
   Dec 25, 2011 · Christmas celebrations in some regions of Saudi Arabia follow a similar pattern with varying degrees of success. Riyadh and the rural villages and towns are barren of any signs of Christmas.
   
   
2. How people celebrate Christmas in Saudi Arabia? - Life in ...
   https://lifeinsaudiarabia.net/how-christmas-is-celebrated-in-saudi
   Christians living in Saudi Arabia can celebrate their festivals including Christmas in Saudi Arabia. Muslims are in majority here and Islam is the official religion of the state. Muslims tend to enjoy Islamic law, they are free to celebrate their festivals and are entertained with many such facilities.

Oh. Sorry. When you say arabia, its hard to identify Saudi Arabia. But nice to know and thank you.

 

[sooda]

Oh. Sorry. When you say arabia, its hard to identify Saudi Arabia. But nice to know and thank you.

Oh.. We also had Christmas Caroling on a flatbed truck, Christmas Plays and Parades.

We also were mindful of not drinking or eating in front of Arabs during Ramadan.. and gave our friends small packages of dates for Eid al Fitr.

 

[Harel13]

Because its a relevant analogy and its an Islamic Hadith that this Sunni Muslim in the conversation follows. If you dont understand that and you intend to find some kind of strange Jew hatred or something which is not there you have to really really try hard and do a lot of inference.

Peace.

Not at all bro! I really just thought it was funny. Look at it this way (although, it's perfectly okay not to get my sense of humor...): Two religions discuss a subject that relates to one of the two, and as an example, drag in a third religion. Peace to you too.

 

[firedragon]

Not at all bro! I really just thought it was funny. Look at it this way (although, it's perfectly okay not to get my sense of humor...): Two religions discuss a subject that relates to one of the two, and as an example, drag in a third religion. Peace to you too.

Next time i will make sure i bring in a few other religions into it as well just to avoid weird take outs like this. Cheers.

 

[LuisDantas]

Because its a relevant analogy and its an Islamic Hadith that this Sunni Muslim in the conversation follows. If you dont understand that and you intend to find some kind of strange Jew hatred or something which is not there you have to really really try hard and do a lot of inference.

Peace.

While that is a very good point that you offer, it is just as true that the Jewish People end up being judged very often in absentia, and not all that often under a generous, fraternal light.

People grow weary of being presumed rotten simply for existing.

 

[Harel13]

Next time i will make sure i bring in a few other religions into it as well just to avoid weird take outs like this. Cheers.

Sorry bro...

 

[exchemist]

In Arabia... We had a street called Christmas Tree Circle that was always decorated with a giant tree of lights strung on wire.

When were you there? I used to buy the prettiest Christmas cards in the souq.

You thought a Christmas pudding was risky?

Saudi Aramco World : Christmas In Dhahran

Aha, now I understand. In these "communities" for Western expats, yes there were plenty of Christmas festivities. I was there in the 1980s. We were told to avoid anything symbolic of Christmas when we went to KSA. Riyadh was noticeably stricter than the coast (Dhahran or Jeddah). The General Manager of the local company in Riyadh sent me a card with a picture of a peacock, inscribed: "Whatever is wonderful, whatever is beautiful, may it be yours, at this holiday time." He wrote underneath: "Hint, hint!".

So yes I did think a Christmas pudding was risky, given the arbitrary behaviour of customs officials at Riyadh airport. I removed the label and proposed to tell the inspectors it was just a traditional British delicacy. In the event, nobody looked at it.

Mind you, at Jeddah, I was told the Filipino community not only actually managed to make pornographic films there, but exported them! I take my hat off to them for that.