A conversation with a Muslim on Christmas

[firedragon]

While that is a very good point that you offer, it is just as true that the Jewish People end up being judged very often in absentia, and not all that often under a generous, fraternal light.

People grow weary of being presumed rotten simply for existing.

True.

 

[exchemist]

Its strange you said this. Strange you would say "no need to inspect my luggage for alcohol or pornography". You mean in whole sale? Because they never check for those things. Its not banned or anything. Pornography as an industry is banned of course but they never check for those matters. And alcohol is freely available unless someone is transporting an excess.

Anyway, its not important. Cheers.

I do not think it was so relaxed in the 1980s. They did inspect personal luggage a great deal. I don't think it was only drugs they were looking for.

 

[sooda]

Aha, now I understand. In these "communities" for Western expats, yes there were plenty of Christmas festivities. I was there in the 1980s. We were told to avoid anything symbolic of Christmas when we went to KSA. Riyadh was noticeably stricter than the coast (Dhahran or Jeddah). The General Manager of the local company in Riyadh sent me a card with a picture of a peacock, inscribed: "Whatever is wonderful, whatever is beautiful, may it be yours, at this holiday time." He wrote underneath: "Hint, hint!".

So yes I did think a Christmas pudding was risky, given the arbitrary behaviour of customs officials at Riyadh airport. I removed the label and proposed to tell the inspectors it was just a traditional British delicacy. In the event, nobody looked at it.

Mind you, at Jeddah, I was told the Filipino community not only actually managed to make pornographic films there, but exported them! I take my hat off to them for that.

Riyadh has always been more conservative. You should see it now.

1980 was a very strict time.. The Iranian revolution and the siege on the Grand Mosque in Mecca freaked the Saudis out.

 

[firedragon]

I do not think it was so relaxed in the 1980s. They did inspect personal luggage a great deal. I don't think it was only drugs they were looking for.

Ah i see. Apologies. I was too young to know anything those days and i think you are absolutely right.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

A: So what if I wish a Christian Merry Christmas?
B: Then you are condoning Christmas.
A: No. I am just wishing him for his celebration, not mine.
B: But by wishing him you are agreeing that Jesus was born on 25th December.
A: No. Even many modern day Christians dont believe that he was born on 25th December. Then shouldnt they deny wishing themselves as well? So it's just a wish, not agreeing to anything. You dont have to agree. You just wish them for their celebration.
B: But they are following Christmas and wishing themselves believing Jesus was not like us, he was son of God. Thats Shirk. So you are agreeing with them by wishing them.
A: How does me wishing someone Merry Christmas validate their theological beliefs? Didn't in your own ahadith the prophet say to the Jews to continue celebrating their Ashura of Musa Alaihissalaam?
B: But the Jews are monotheists.
A: But the Christians are Ahlul baith. And dont you call Shia's kafir while celebrating the Ashura of Hussain ibn ali radhiallahu anhu? Dont you both celebrate it? If they are kafir, why dont you reject everything they do? Its the same logic you are using against a simple wish. I am only wishing a Christian, i am not celebrating as the birthday Jesus Christ. Arent you practicing a kind of hypocrisy?
B: See the Ashura is only Sunnah, not fardh.
A: OMG. Did i say wishing merry christmas is fardh?

B: Okay, don't you think that by participating in a sentiment with the Christian you are partially or fully condoning their practice of worshiping Jesus as God?
A: So you are contending that "Participating with a Christian is condoning their theology"?
B: Yes.
A: But the Qur'an says you can have a Christians food. So are you saying God is allowing you to eat their food, be a guest at their home, isnt that participating?
B: Food is just food.
A: What about marriage? The Quran allows you to marry them! Isnt that participating?
B: But thats Christians who dont believe Jesus is God.
A: No. The Quran only says you can marry them. It doesn't say "Christians who dont believe Jesus is God". You are making things up.
B: But Allah admonishes them for being Christian.
A: But God also says that they will be saved if they believe in God.
B: Thats if they believe God is one, not three.
A: No. God in Quran tells you they believe in three. But he still says they will be saved. You made that up too. Knowing they believe in three he tells you they will be saved. You are making things up. A lot.
B. But i my Alim told me.
A: True. But you have a brain. Think.
B: You are a kafir.

I rest my case.

Oh, Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it by the way. Peace be upon you all.

Assalamu Alaikum.

This is so wonderful.
It demonstrates that God is working in all people regardless of religion.
Thank you for sharing this beautiful exchange. Peace be upon you.

 

[Earthtank]

A: So what if I wish a Christian Merry Christmas?
B: Then you are condoning Christmas.
A: No. I am just wishing him for his celebration, not mine.
B: But by wishing him you are agreeing that Jesus was born on 25th December.
A: No. Even many modern day Christians dont believe that he was born on 25th December. Then shouldnt they deny wishing themselves as well? So it's just a wish, not agreeing to anything. You dont have to agree. You just wish them for their celebration.
B: But they are following Christmas and wishing themselves believing Jesus was not like us, he was son of God. Thats Shirk. So you are agreeing with them by wishing them.
A: How does me wishing someone Merry Christmas validate their theological beliefs? Didn't in your own ahadith the prophet say to the Jews to continue celebrating their Ashura of Musa Alaihissalaam?
B: But the Jews are monotheists.
A: But the Christians are Ahlul baith. And dont you call Shia's kafir while celebrating the Ashura of Hussain ibn ali radhiallahu anhu? Dont you both celebrate it? If they are kafir, why dont you reject everything they do? Its the same logic you are using against a simple wish. I am only wishing a Christian, i am not celebrating as the birthday Jesus Christ. Arent you practicing a kind of hypocrisy?
B: See the Ashura is only Sunnah, not fardh.
A: OMG. Did i say wishing merry christmas is fardh?

B: Okay, don't you think that by participating in a sentiment with the Christian you are partially or fully condoning their practice of worshiping Jesus as God?
A: So you are contending that "Participating with a Christian is condoning their theology"?
B: Yes.
A: But the Qur'an says you can have a Christians food. So are you saying God is allowing you to eat their food, be a guest at their home, isnt that participating?
B: Food is just food.
A: What about marriage? The Quran allows you to marry them! Isnt that participating?
B: But thats Christians who dont believe Jesus is God.
A: No. The Quran only says you can marry them. It doesn't say "Christians who dont believe Jesus is God". You are making things up.
B: But Allah admonishes them for being Christian.
A: But God also says that they will be saved if they believe in God.
B: Thats if they believe God is one, not three.
A: No. God in Quran tells you they believe in three. But he still says they will be saved. You made that up too. Knowing they believe in three he tells you they will be saved. You are making things up. A lot.
B. But i my Alim told me.
A: True. But you have a brain. Think.
B: You are a kafir.

I rest my case.

Oh, Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it by the way. Peace be upon you all.

Assalamu Alaikum.

Seems you do not understand your own religion.

 

[firedragon]

Seems you do not understand your own religion.

Enlighten me.

 

[Earthtank]

Enlighten me.

Your OP is riddled with contradictions way too many for me to sit here and walk you through your illogical conclusions. Sorry but, i am not here to teach you your own religion but, starting with Chapter 112 of the Quran should be a good place for you to start.

 

[sooda]

Your OP is riddled with contradictions way too many for me to sit here and walk you through your illogical conclusions. Sorry but, i am not here to teach you your own religion but, starting with Chapter 112 of the Quran should be a good place for you to start.

Have you lived in any Muslim country or spent Christmas in any Arab country?

 

[firedragon]

Your OP is riddled with contradictions way too many for me to sit here and walk you through your illogical conclusions. Sorry but, i am not here to teach you your own religion but, starting with Chapter 112 of the Quran should be a good place for you to start.

Why not open a new thread and go ahead and teach me my religion. And take it for granted that i have read the Quran and go ahead with your lesson. Its much better than making remarks bro. Doesnt take you anywhere.

Or what now? Lets say chapter 112. Kul hu allahu ahadhun. Allahu assamadh. Lam yalidh. Wa lam yooladh. Walam Yakullahoo kufuwan ahadhun.

There you go. Just to be comprehensive i have quoted the arabic of the verse without any wakth.

So go ahead and explain to me how this chapter is contradicting this post. Here you go, let me put up the translation as well.

"Say: ""He is God, the One, God, the Indivisible, He does not beget, nor was He begotten, And there is none who is His equal.""

Let's see what you are looking for.

 

[Earthtank]

Have you lived in any Muslim country or spent Christmas in any Arab country?

Yes to both questions. I worked in the middle east (UAE, Bahrain and KSA) for 7 years as a contractor. How is that relevant to anything i said?

 

[Earthtank]

"Say: ""He is God, the One, God, the Indivisible, He does not beget, nor was He begotten, And there is none who is His equal.""

The words and implications of Merry Christmas contradict those very verses. Whether you intentionally mean it or not, that is irrelevant. You cannot simply separate your actions from the meaning/implications simply because you want them to. At the end fo the day, i do not care who says what and wishes who anything but, just wanted to point your illogical OP. After all, these are public forums

 

[sooda]

Yes to both questions. I worked in the middle east (UAE, Bahrain and KSA) for 7 years as a contractor. How is that relevant to anything i said?

Did you have a good experience? Were you working in Jubail?

Were you treated with respect and good will?

 

[Earthtank]

Did you have a good experience? Were you working in Jubail?

Were you treated with respect and good will?

Based out of Ajman mainly at first then began moving around for work. Never been to Jubail but do know it. Is this relevant to what i was saying?

 

[sooda]

Based out of Ajman mainly at first then began moving around for work. Never been to Jubail but do know it. Is this relevant to what i was saying?

So you were based in the Emirates. Just curious.. I spent most of my time in Arabia and short time in Libya and Kuwait.

 

[Earthtank]

So you were based in the Emirates. Just curious.. I spent most of my time in Arabia and short time in Libya and Kuwait.

oh ok cool. When i was in Saudi i was mainly in Riyadh and Jeddah with Aramco. Emirates is nice just too darn expensive . How were Libya and Kuwait? Never been to either.

 

[firedragon]

The words and implications of Merry Christmas contradict those very verses. Whether you intentionally mean it or not, that is irrelevant. You cannot simply separate your actions from the meaning/implications simply because you want them to. At the end fo the day, i do not care who says what and wishes who anything but, just wanted to point your illogical OP. After all, these are public forums

Thanks.
Peace.

 

[firedragon]

The words and implications of Merry Christmas contradict those very verses. Whether you intentionally mean it or not, that is irrelevant. You cannot simply separate your actions from the meaning/implications simply because you want them to. At the end fo the day, i do not care who says what and wishes who anything but, just wanted to point your illogical OP. After all, these are public forums

What do you mean "words and implications of Merry Christmas"?

 

[firedragon]

Based out of Ajman mainly at first then began moving around for work. Never been to Jubail but do know it. Is this relevant to what i was saying?

Where is Jubail? I have never heard of it.

 

[sooda]

oh ok cool. When i was in Saudi i was mainly in Riyadh and Jeddah with Aramco. Emirates is nice just too darn expensive . How were Libya and Kuwait? Never been to either.

Different from Arabia and each other. Kuwait felt safe .. Tripoli didn't.

My family was also with ARAMCO. Do you go to any of the reunions?