Well, there we go, I must be a Henotheist...
I wonder how that will go down at my bible study group!
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a created being AND divine???
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
I wonder how that will go down at my bible study group!
And thanks to you too
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Depends on how honest they want to be with themselves.Well, there we go, I must be a Henotheist...
I wonder how that will go down at my bible study group!
firedragon
Veteran Member
In the Islamic theology, or the book Qur'an rather, you cannot even make money your divinity. So no. God does not create anything divine. No creation is divine. Not even the concept of angels. Nothing is divine.
Even the references Holy and Divine are poles apart. Anything read as "holy" does not mean "divinity".
I ask because I (currently) believe Jesus Christ was created (as opposed to always existed) BUT is divine in nature and a part of the Godhead.
I hesitate to use the word “trinity” as it comes with so much baggage but I don’t feel comfortable with “unitarian”
If he had always existed alongside God The Father then I think that would be polytheism, but I don’t think he did, I believe he was “begotten’ by God The Father (who always existed) - he is therefore not the equal of God The Father but a subservient being whose essence is divine and who was created by God The Father - but also a part of “God” which I think is the collective noun for divine beings (beings with a divine nature - of which I believe there are three)
To complicate things further: I also believe that he is both fully human and fully divine
Does all this make sense to people?
Can one be a created being but also be divine in nature and share the status of “God” with God The Father?
Your view very close to the Arian view the Catholic Church called the Arian heresy. Surprisingly similar.
Eddi said "Jesus, who is God."
52 percent of Americans say Jesus isn't God but was a great teacher, survey says
52 percent of Christians don't think that Jesus was the son of God (proof: link above).
28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God
At least 28 times the bible says that there is only one God (proof: link above).
In other parts of the bible, it explains that it is "thought" that Jesus fulfilled the Jewish prediction of a "coming Messiah."
Yet, the Jews, who are very well versed in modern Hebrew (but not well versed in ancient Hebrew that they were tortured into forgetting) don't think that Jesus fulfills their Messiah prophecy. It is, after all, their prophecy, and rabbis are, after all, experts in their own religion.
Thus, many Jews refused to convert to the Christian religion (though there are some Messianic Jews--Jews who believe that Jesus is the Messiah).
In biblical times (like modern times), there were many who had "claimed" to be the messiah. At the time that Jesus was crucified, there was another claiming to be the Messiah, who was also slated to be crucified. His name was "Jesus, son of God" in our language, or "Jesus ben (son of) Abbas (God)" in his language. Jesus Benabbas was a thief.
There are also numerous New testament passages that say that Jesus is the son of God and should be call Lord (not because he is God, but because he is the son of God).
Almost all people have a soul (spirit which came from God). In that sense, we all are part of God.
52 percent of Americans say Jesus isn't God but was a great teacher, survey says
52 percent of Christians don't think that Jesus was the son of God (proof: link above).
28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God
At least 28 times the bible says that there is only one God (proof: link above).
In other parts of the bible, it explains that it is "thought" that Jesus fulfilled the Jewish prediction of a "coming Messiah."
Yet, the Jews, who are very well versed in modern Hebrew (but not well versed in ancient Hebrew that they were tortured into forgetting) don't think that Jesus fulfills their Messiah prophecy. It is, after all, their prophecy, and rabbis are, after all, experts in their own religion.
Thus, many Jews refused to convert to the Christian religion (though there are some Messianic Jews--Jews who believe that Jesus is the Messiah).
In biblical times (like modern times), there were many who had "claimed" to be the messiah. At the time that Jesus was crucified, there was another claiming to be the Messiah, who was also slated to be crucified. His name was "Jesus, son of God" in our language, or "Jesus ben (son of) Abbas (God)" in his language. Jesus Benabbas was a thief.
There are also numerous New testament passages that say that Jesus is the son of God and should be call Lord (not because he is God, but because he is the son of God).
Almost all people have a soul (spirit which came from God). In that sense, we all are part of God.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
While that may be true, what is orthodoxy to one group is heresy to another.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
No Arianism did not believe Jesus was like God in some way. But Semi-Arians did believe Jesus was like God: Semi-Arianism - Wikipedia
Arianism and Semi-Arianism is two differents beliefs.
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firedragon
Veteran Member
Mydoxy is orthodoxy, your doxy is heresy. Has been the prevalent case forever.
Can one be a created being BUT: also be divine in nature and share the status of "God" with God The Father???
Basically: Can God create an entity (such as Jesus Christ) who is God but who is also one of God’s creations???
I think this would be like God expanding himself or perhaps even reproducing asexually??? This would bring about a new meaning to “The Son of God”…
Sounds a bit polytheistic, I know…
I ask because I (currently) believe Jesus Christ was created (as opposed to always existed) BUT is divine in nature and a part of the Godhead.
I hesitate to use the word “trinity” as it comes with so much baggage but I don’t feel comfortable with “unitarian”
If he had always existed alongside God The Father then I think that would be polytheism, but I don’t think he did, I believe he was “begotten’ by God The Father (who always existed) - he is therefore not the equal of God The Father but a subservient being whose essence is divine and who was created by God The Father - but also a part of “God” which I think is the collective noun for divine beings (beings with a divine nature - of which I believe there are three)
To complicate things further: I also believe that he is both fully human and fully divine
Does all this make sense to people?
Can one be a created being but also be divine in nature and share the status of “God” with God The Father?
Another way to see it is ask if God can created a being that is a perfect mirror of God's Attributes.
An example is Jesus, although born from the womb was created via the Holy Spirit, the spirit that reflects all the attributes, but not the Essence of God.
So God's Messengers are like a perfect mirror, who reflect naught but the Attributes given by God.
Those attributes do not define God, they define the essential aspect of all the Messengers.
In this age the Messenger came in the Glory of God, which is in a Station that showed us all the attributes in One Message.
Regards Tony
firedragon
Veteran Member
Meandflower. You are arguing against something I did not say. Thats called a strawman.
I dont mean you did that on purpose.
Anyway, maybe you should do a little more reading on the arian philosophy. Arian controversy was subordinationism. Jesus was the Logos, was subordinate to God, but was adopted as God later since he was always Gods son, and divine. Thats how as Arius calls it "the knowing of the father" takes place in Jesus. Thats why they prayed to Jesus.
Peace.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Can't tell if you're being serious here or not, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Haha. I was actually giving the historical fact. What you said is true, and I dont consider Arianism as heresy. I was just stating that Arianism is still considered a heresy by the Catholic Church. I did not claim one is right.
Cheers.
syo
Well-Known Member
Jesus wasn't created. He was born.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
No because semi-arians believed Jesus was more like God than the arians did.Meandflower. You are arguing against something I did not say. Thats called a strawman.
I dont mean you did that on purpose.
Anyway, maybe you should do a little more reading on the arian philosophy. Arian controversy was subordinationism. Jesus was the Logos, was subordinate to God, but was adopted as God later since he was always Gods son, and divine. Thats how as Arius calls it "the knowing of the father" takes place in Jesus. Thats why they prayed to Jesus.
Peace.
syo
Well-Known Member
These are two words, no? So, they must have something different.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
This only happens is pagan world views where you have demigods.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Well, the athanasian creed believed Jesus was absolutely the same as God in coeternality and coequality.
But that does not negate the fact what arians thought of Jesus.
He was both. He was created as God's "firstborn" long before the creation of anything else. (Colossians 1:15-17)Jesus wasn't created. He was born.
The pre-human Jesus was with his God and Father as "The Word"..."in the beginning". Since God had no beginning, this must be the beginning of creation. (Revelation 3:14)
He was born as a human in order to save mankind....a sinless son of God, not a sinful son of Adam.
But Jesus existed in heaven before his human birth. (John 17:4)
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
Can one be a created being BUT: also be divine in nature and share the status of "God" with God The Father???
Basically: Can God create an entity (such as Jesus Christ) who is God but who is also one of God’s creations???
I think this would be like God expanding himself or perhaps even reproducing asexually??? This would bring about a new meaning to “The Son of God”…
Sounds a bit polytheistic, I know…
I ask because I (currently) believe Jesus Christ was created (as opposed to always existed) BUT is divine in nature and a part of the Godhead.
I hesitate to use the word “trinity” as it comes with so much baggage but I don’t feel comfortable with “unitarian”
If he had always existed alongside God The Father then I think that would be polytheism, but I don’t think he did, I believe he was “begotten’ by God The Father (who always existed) - he is therefore not the equal of God The Father but a subservient being whose essence is divine and who was created by God The Father - but also a part of “God” which I think is the collective noun for divine beings (beings with a divine nature - of which I believe there are three)
To complicate things further: I also believe that he is both fully human and fully divine
Does all this make sense to people?
Can one be a created being but also be divine in nature and share the status of “God” with God The Father?
The answer is connected to the trinity. Picture a man named Joe who is still a teenager. His is a good boy who is unmarried and relates to his parents in a respectful way. One day he falls in love and soon gets married to his future wife Rachel. He is still Joe, but he is still a son to his parents and but now also a husband to his wife.
This division into son and husband is not due to a split personality or him having physically split into two. Rather it is about two different roles that Joe plays, due to the the needs of his parents and wife being different. He will always be his mother's first child, but needs to be initiate and a man with his wife. Through love and respect he tries to optimize needs of both.
One day Joe and Rachel have a child. Now Joe is a father to his child, who also has unique needs as a child. He is still one person, but has three roles.
God the father was connected to the special needs of the Old Testament. God the son was connected to the special needs of the Gentiles; Christianity. While God the Holy Spirit is connected to the needs of the Saints; children of God.