waitasec
Veteran Member
how is the universe intelligent exactly?
it's like saying...
tornadoes and earthquakes are intelligent
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A Debate About God.
- Thread starter Daviso452
- Start date
how is the universe intelligent exactly?
it's like saying...
tornadoes and earthquakes are intelligent
Cordoba
Well-Known Member
The Creator is not bound by time
He sees and knows the future, present and past, unlike us
He is not constrained by time, and therefore He is Eternal
Cordoba
Well-Known Member
There is an intelligent design in the whole universe, and in all of God's creations
Look for example at a baby when it's born, or at night look up to the stars and contemplate the billions of galaxies
In our solar system, our sun has a different orbit from the moon, and each has a different function which are of benefit to us
Look at our planet earth and how it rotates around the sun, with its axis tilted to give different seasons .... etc
The signs of intelligent design are all over the place and there for us to reflect ...
outhouse
Atheistically
there is no ID in the universe.
There is no creators hand anywhere, there is nature how ever and to this date not a shred of evidence of any kind there is anything nore then nature.
There is a mountain of evidence how ever that man made creation myths because he didnt understand the natural world around himself
outhouse
Atheistically
As far as we know a creator is bound by imagination though.
tigerclaw1000
Member
You ID always presume that there is a creation! you start your arguments with a conclusion basically. to say that some thing was created you need to prove it was created.
You have to be honest and look around your self, and think what you see. You do not see a God pooping in to existence and weaving his hand creating stuff. You see nature interacting with each other, and when you look closer you see more interaction. You might see something that has no natural explanation. But to explain it by God/supernatural you have to prove it first. But what ALL ID scientists do is say: "We do not know what the natural explanation is, so......... GOD DID IT!" AND a real scientist would say: "I do not YET know what the natural explanation is".
You have to be honest and look around your self, and think what you see. You do not see a God pooping in to existence and weaving his hand creating stuff. You see nature interacting with each other, and when you look closer you see more interaction. You might see something that has no natural explanation. But to explain it by God/supernatural you have to prove it first. But what ALL ID scientists do is say: "We do not know what the natural explanation is, so......... GOD DID IT!" AND a real scientist would say: "I do not YET know what the natural explanation is".
waitasec
Veteran Member
if there is intelligent design then why is the design so flawed?
Daviso452
Boy Genius
First off, my name is not Davis. My screen name is Daviso (not Davis).
Second, my parents are not religous either. My mother is somewhat of a budhist, but in the philisophical sense, not the religous.
Third, even if my parents had "faith" in the name they gave me, that does not mean that they were right in doing so.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Hello. I am an atheist wishing to have a debate about the existence of God with those who believe in him. However, this forum does not need to be limited to the Abrahamic Gods of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.
To start this off, I would like to know why you (the believer) believe in God. When I say this, I do not mean little details that may only make sense with God, but the core reason that convinces you that a God exits. If, however, you believe solely on faith, then I wish to know why you believe faith in your religion than in others.
Great. Now lets see where this thread goes.
i believe in a creator because all the matter in the universe was at one time not in existence, then it was in existence and something must have caused it to exist.
Also, the complexity of living things, and the information contained in DNA are evidence that an intelligence is behind them because 'information' always comes from a mind, it is never something that occurs naturally.
Daviso452
Boy Genius
Well the problem with that, and something that people often overlook, is that genetic mutation is happening right before our eyes. My evidence: Bacteria.
This does not confirm evolution in of itself, but it does prove that genetic mutation without inteligence is possible.
Regarding the first part, scientists do not know for sure what the circumstances were like before the big bang.
All that is known, as far as I know, is that all the matter within the universe used to be within a single point in space. The, "begining" of the universe was when that point exploded, an event known as the "Big Bang."
However, scientists do not know what things were like prior to this, but that does not mean we can say anything about it. The logical thing to do is to be in the neutral position (neutral position being "i don't know") and try to find out what it was like, and do not make any claims until you have evidence to back you up.
From browsing and joining many forums i'd say that almost without exception people have a faith in something but no direct proof. My story is that i have had direct proof and can only tell you that whether somone is an atheist or they have some faith in something that some organised religion tells them both are flying blind...i"ll say one more thing....aussie pm gillard says she doesnt believe in god....an atheist yet what she (an illuminati plant) really means she doesnt follow god..she knows something exists but it suits her purpose to hide behind atheism....taken to a lesser non conspiratorial view just because someone has faith in something or is an atheist doesnt mean theve even thought about it or is perhaps confused with the obvious confusion of religious beliefs on hand.... I hear all the time...its too much for me....any way im gnostic and can only question the beliefs of people who are told that ifv they ask they shall recieve and theve never borne witness to a thing...
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
I think you may have missed the point I was trying to get at (which is not hard to do because i often dont explain myself properly)
its not that these things in themselves exist....its that they exist because of the information contained in the DNA. The DNA in all living things is the blueprint for how the matter is arranged. So the DNA is coded information....somewhat like computer chips and we all know that coded information doesnt occur naturally.
Information is not a naturally occuring substance....information is abstract, it cannot be created by normal forces of nature. So the information is what gives rise to the likelihood of a creator/designer.... because information always comes from some intelligence.
its also not logical that because we dont know, then that must mean there is no creator, so we might as well start from the assumption there is no creator.
That simply ignores the evidence, which is already well established, that there is complex information inside all living things. Information always comes from a mind....and to ignore that and tell people there is no creator is simply unethical and deliberately ignorant.
tigerclaw1000
Member
There is no information in DNA, or any living thing. Information implies that there is an informant, we do not know that! All we can see are natural process that account for its origin and its mechanism of work.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
that is contrary to what genetic scientists have discovered
tigerclaw1000
Member
I mean really why would an all powerful God need DNA, nature or physics ? it seems to me he either dose not exist or he wants to deceive us!!
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
he doesnt personally need DNA, he's spiritual and therefore has not form..no matter needs to be arranged for God
but physical things are different to spirit things. Physical things are made from matter and the matter must be arranged in a certain prescribed way. The information in the DNA governs how the matter is arranged. its because of the DNA that you have two arms at the side of your body and not one arm where you leg is and another on your head if you know what i mean.
tigerclaw1000
Member
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
do you know how many different sources there are for information about DNA?
tigerclaw1000
Member
Show me a source where a credible scientist says that there is no other way the (information) in DNA could have been made only by an intelligence and not Natural laws.
You might say that DNA is information but this information is of a natural origin, this is demonstrable!! There is no intelligence required to make it.
