A Deist who appreciates the Qur'an

[Monotheist 101]

Krishna's message was distorted by Hindu followers

I was looking into the hindu scriptures..Krishna reportedly hid the clothes of naked virgins so he could perv on them..
Srimad Bhagavatam 10:22:1-28, Brahmavaivarta Purana 1:27 and Brhaddharma Purana 3:17.. How can something like that be attributed to God?

 

[Sha'irullah]

I was looking into the hindu scriptures..Krishna reportedly hid the clothes of naked virgins so he could perv on them..
Srimad Bhagavatam 10:22:1-28, Brahmavaivarta Purana 1:27 and Brhaddharma Purana 3:17.. How can something like that be attributed to God?

Hindus humanize their deities so much that they become sinful like us humans. Krishna was also an avatar and depending on the denomination he is either an avatar or a deity himself.
This is a similar topic I brought up earlier on RF. When people begin to humanize god to relate to him we create corruption and begin making god fallible and human. When god becomes fallible and humanlike he no longer becomes a god. The very definition of god implies he is immune to fallacy. Ancient pagans made god as human as possible so they could relate to him and form understanding about the behavior of god. While Christians and Muslims came to the assertion god is all powerful and mankind cannot relate to something that is beyond their comprehension. So when a Muslims say Allahu akbar it obviously means god is greater... than EVERYTHING, since he is the creator of everything that exist. That is the true definition of a god and the only thing I will acknowledge as god yet alone worthy of any form of worship. If I was to worship Krisna I would have better luck worshipping any other human being. This is called anthropolatry in short.

Now deist vary from person to person about the nature of god. Some deists believe god is created from this reality and abides by its physics. This means god is limited and thus makes god seem less of a god and more like a cosmic abomination. I myself believe god is the sustainers of the law of physics, reality and this dimension and all those known to exist. Essentially Panentheism is what I am describing. God encompasses all knowledge, existence and thought since he is greater than all 3.

 

[Sha'irullah]

It is only because Buddha's words have not reached us in the original words revealed. We get whatever was collected some five hundred years after him.

Like Jesus' Message was distorted by Christians or Krishna's message was distorted by Hindu followers the same happened with Buddha; one can make a comparison of Buddha, Jesus and Krishna; then it is easy to understand.

What makes you think Buddha's message was distorted? When Buddhism came about it was new because of its lessened importance on god. So you mean to inform me history is wrong? There is an alternate dimension that exist and somehow collides with ours and rewrites history?

 

[paarsurrey]

What makes you think Buddha's message was distorted? When Buddhism came about it was new because of its lessened importance on god. So you mean to inform me history is wrong? There is an alternate dimension that exist and somehow collides with ours and rewrites history?

History is not immune from being wrong. Jesus was a monotheist; Christians made Trinity and made Jesus god.

 

[Madhuri]

I was looking into the hindu scriptures..Krishna reportedly hid the clothes of naked virgins so he could perv on them..
Srimad Bhagavatam 10:22:1-28, Brahmavaivarta Purana 1:27 and Brhaddharma Purana 3:17.. How can something like that be attributed to God?

Krishna is a prankster. And he was still in the form of a young child when he did that. He left the village at the age of 10, and this story took place well before he left.

All these stories of Krishna have high significance and meaning. Without studying it, you will naturally project human qualities onto him. But this is not how he is understood by those who know of him.

 

[Madhuri]

Hindus humanize their deities so much that they become sinful like us humans. Krishna was also an avatar and depending on the denomination he is either an avatar or a deity himself.
This is a similar topic I brought up earlier on RF. When people begin to humanize god to relate to him we create corruption and begin making god fallible and human.

Hindus believe that we and the material universe is a perverted reflection of the Spirit reality, and of God. So humans also are a reflection of the spiritual body. Krishna is the Super Human, so to speak. People who read fallibility and corruption into the character of Krishna really have no understanding of his attributes or the whole surrounding philosophy.

 

[Monotheist 101]

What makes you think Buddha's message was distorted? When Buddhism came about it was new because of its lessened importance on god. So you mean to inform me history is wrong? There is an alternate dimension that exist and somehow collides with ours and rewrites history?

I reckon the reason behind Buddhas lessened importance of God was because of the thriving Polytheistic Hindu culture and its many Gods and Avatars of his time.. I think Buddha was an example to his people..not to get too carried away with distorted views of God and concentrate on the important things in life..because ultimately the way to paradise is through our conduct in this life..IMO a person can either want the luxuries of this life..or that of the after life..Buddha was an extreme example of the latter..I have learnt many lessons from him..while disagreeing with the fundamentals of his teachings that have reached us..also alot of the Hindu teachings that are incorporated into buddhism..like reincarnation..etc

 

[Sha'irullah]

I reckon the reason behind Buddhas lessened importance of God was because of the thriving Polytheistic Hindu culture and its many Gods and Avatars of his time.. I think Buddha was an example to his people..not to get too carried away with distorted views of God and concentrate on the important things in life..because ultimately the way to paradise is through our conduct in this life..IMO a person can either want the luxuries of this life..or that of the after life..Buddha was an extreme example of the latter..I have learnt many lessons from him..while disagreeing with the fundamentals of his teachings that have reached us..also alot of the Hindu teachings that are incorporated into buddhism..like reincarnation..etc

The idea of Heaven and Hell in Darmic tradition is non existent and imported from the outside. It would be natural of Buddha to accept samsara because the common viewpoint is that the soul could not possibly go anyplace else. The various loka were not the idea of heaven to Hindus and was quite different

 

[Monotheist 101]

The idea of Heaven and Hell in Darmic tradition is non existent and imported from the outside. It would be natural of Buddha to accept samsara because the common viewpoint is that the soul could not possibly go anyplace else. The various loka were not the idea of heaven to Hindus and was quite different

Heaven to Hindus in my understanding is a gradual closeness to God achieved through karma and reincarnation..ultimatley the person who is a part of God becomes one with him..but the same basic principle of a struggle in this present life to achieve a higher station in the afterlife/next life...I think the terminology may be different but the general outlook and gist of the teachings is similar to that of Abrahamic religions. The difference being in Islam there is only one ultimate test..as opposed to multiple tests ( I use the word test because in reincarnation if you fail you come back as something lower in station and farther from being one with God)..hope this makes sense

Cheers
God Bless

 

[Sha'irullah]

Heaven to Hindus in my understanding is a gradual closeness to God achieved through karma and reincarnation..ultimatley the person who is a part of God becomes one with him..but the same basic principle of a struggle in this present life to achieve a higher station in the afterlife/next life...I think the terminology may be different but the general outlook and gist of the teachings is similar to that of Abrahamic religions. The difference being in Islam there is only one ultimate test..as opposed to multiple tests ( I use the word test because in reincarnation if you fail you come back as something lower in station and farther from being one with God)..hope this makes sense

Cheers
God Bless

I have studied and practised Hinduism for over a year so I understand fully . But reunification with god and heaven are totally opposite. There is no individuality in the Hindu concept of "Heaven". But some ISCKON members use the word Loka as heaven and say heaven is serving in Goloka itself.
The primary issue is that Hindus differ greatly amongst themselves in regards to the afterlife

 

[Monotheist 101]

I have studied and practised Hinduism for over a year so I understand fully .

And I dont doubt you

But reunification with god and heaven are totally opposite.

Not if you considered both of them are a form of reward..

 

[Madhuri]

The difference being in Islam there is only one ultimate test..as opposed to multiple tests ( I use the word test because in reincarnation if you fail you come back as something lower in station and farther from being one with God)

Hi, I hope you don't mind if I clarify and correct.

Life is not seen as a test in Hinduism. It is seen as a spiritual evolution. We go from a 'clean slate' stage of consciousness and life experience makes us learn and grow. All our sins and mistakes are important. The karma received for them makes us learn. We do not believe that one lifetime is even nearly enough to become God-realised, which is why we believe in multiple lives. The goal is this God-realisation. Once it is achieved, we can escape the material existence and go to God.

Yes, we can go backward at times and have to take the form of a lesser entity. But we bounce right back and continue on once our lessons are learnt.

I hope that helps to clarify our beliefs.

 

[Monotheist 101]

Hi, I hope you don't mind if I clarify and correct.

I dont mind at all

My last post should clarify that I believe that they are both similar in the sense that
they are regarded as a desirable reward..which one has to work towards..struggle for..

 

[Monotheist 101]

Krishna is a prankster. And he was still in the form of a young child when he did that.

But I read that the Gopis wanted to marry him so he hid their clothes..some form of accepting their proposal...how can a young kid of 10 do that..or take wives?

 

[Madhuri]

But I read that the Gopis wanted to marry him so he hid their clothes..some form of accepting their proposal...how can a young kid of 10 do that..or take wives?

The gopis were also only children. From a young age they would pray to God for a good husband. Because Krishna has the attribute of being the most beautiful and charming, all the gopis were in love with him and so prayed to become his wife in the future. When he appeared and stole their clothing, they were in the river praying for him. Hearing their prayers, he appeared there.

Their actions in coming forward to take their clothing and exposing themselves is symbolic of submitting one's whole self to God.

It is not meant to be lustful. God already knows what we look like naked, but his intentions are not lustful as a human's would be.

A quote from the telling of this story:

“My dear well-behaved girls, I know of your desire for Me and why you worshiped goddess Kätyäyané, and I completely approve of your action. Anyone whose full consciousness is always absorbed in Me, even if in lust, is elevated. As a fried seed cannot fructify, so any desire in connection with My loving service cannot produce any fruitive result, as in ordinary karma.”
There is a statement in the Brahma-saàhitä: karmäëi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhäjäm [Bs. 5.54]. Everyone is bound by his fruitive activities, but the devotees, because they work completely for the satisfaction of the Lord, suffer no reactions. Similarly, the gopés’ attitude toward Kåñëa, although seemingly lusty, should not be considered to be like the lusty desires of ordinary women. The reason is explained by Kåñëa Himself. Activities in devotional service to Kåñëa are transcendental to any fruitive result.

 

[Monotheist 101]

but his intentions are not lustful as a human's would be.

IMO God doesnt have the "human" desire to replicate..

The gopis were also only children.

Then how did they get such a mature understanding of faith?..thus wanting to marry krishna..I would imagine children that young would not fully understand the concept of marriage (or that it requires being naked infront of your partner)..Krishna on the other hand being an Avatar/God It is understandable how he may be depicted as child but still possess the intellect and understanding of a God according to Hindu scripture..

BTW appreciate you clarifying these misconceptions

Sterling Archer..I didnt mean to derail your thread..

 

[Slave of Allah]

" We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Qur'ân) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness over all things?" quran((41:053)

 

[Slave of Allah]

In the Qur'an, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described in the following terms:

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)
​

 

[Madhuri]

IMO God doesnt have the "human" desire to replicate..

What do you mean by replicate?

Then how did they get such a mature understanding of faith?..thus wanting to marry krishna..I would imagine children that young would not fully understand the concept of marriage (or that it requires being naked infront of your partner)..Krishna on the other hand being an Avatar/God It is understandable how he may be depicted as child but still possess the intellect and understanding of a God according to Hindu scripture..

This was over 5000 yrs ago. We know that through history women were brought up to think of marriage as their life occupation. They didn't have careers. Praying for a good husband was part of their culture. Their parents taught them the tradition.
You are probably right that they would not properly understand the concept of marriage. However, even children form infatuations and have romantic notions/desires (I know I did!).

BTW appreciate you clarifying these misconceptions

My pleasure

 

[Madhuri]

In the Qur'an, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described in the following terms:

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)
​

Interesting. The description of an expanding universe also exists in Hindu scripture, which is thousands of years old.