A Different “Judgment Day” Perspective?

[Brickjectivity]

Interesting thought, China is often referred to as the Red Dragon, does anyone think think China is the Red Dragon of Revelation? Their ancient rulers were called Emperors of Heaven, from which the later human emperors are descended.

I can think of reasons why not. First of all I don't know why anyone says the dragon of Revelation must be red, but aside from that I don't think it can be a country. Rev 20:2 said that in the vision Michael seized the dragon and bound it for 1000 years and also that the dragon was the ancient serpent, the devil or enemy. That excludes the dragon from being a country. Another thing that excludes it from being a country is that in verse 17 the dragon waged war against the children of the woman who are all "those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus." It could be multiple countries or some global thing but not just one country. Actually I think every person wages war against the children of the woman directly or indirectly, because we try to live normally while they try to live above the norm. We just want to get along, be nice to those that are nice to us, give and get. They want to raise the bar. That actually could make normal people (perhaps lukewarmness) part of the dragon.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I can think of reasons why not. First of all I don't know why anyone says the dragon of Revelation must be red, but aside from that I don't think it can be a country. Rev 20:2 said that in the vision Michael seized the dragon and bound it for 1000 years and also that the dragon was the ancient serpent, the devil or enemy. That excludes the dragon from being a country. Another thing that excludes it from being a country is that in verse 17 the dragon waged war against the children of the woman who are all "those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus." It could be multiple countries or some global thing but not just one country. Actually I think every person wages war against the children of the woman directly or indirectly, because we try to live normally while they try to live above the norm. We just want to get along, be nice to those that are nice to us, give and get. They want to raise the bar. That actually could make normal people (perhaps lukewarmness) part of the dragon.

Revelation 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.

I did not mean that the great red dragon is literally a country, nor literally a red dragon, it was cast out of heaven and so I raise the possibility of the spirit of communistic Chinese civilization to be considered when interpreting what the great red dragon means as we near judgement and the Armageddon war. I presume it will be a nuclear war and if the dragon is the main influencing spirit of present day PRC, then China will be involved imho.

As to your point of the dragon influencing non oriental civilization, sure, I agree it is. I think the influence of Satan is ubiquitous throughout all countries of the world, some more than others, but it is not countries that are being judged, but souls. So a good soul in China or anywhere else will be saved, and a failed soul in China and anywhere else will undergo some purging. The evil spirits such as those whose influence humanity at the global, national, local, and individual levels also get judged.

In raising the issue of interpretation of Revelation, I am definitely not an expert, and only put these things out for consideration. I will likewise look at what you or others put forward for consideration. I somehow feel that when whatever is going to happen happens, I will be as surprised as most others. Still it is stimulating to ponder the unfolding drama of end of the world as we know it, and the contemplation of the unknowable glory to come.

.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Revelation 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.

I did not mean that the great red dragon is literally a country, nor literally a red dragon, it was cast out of heaven and so I raise the possibility of the spirit of communistic Chinese civilization to be considered when interpreting what the great red dragon means as we near judgement and the Armageddon war. I presume it will be a nuclear war and if the dragon is the main influencing spirit of present day PRC, then China will be involved imho.

As to your point of the dragon influencing non oriental civilization, sure, I agree it is. I think the influence of Satan is ubiquitous throughout all countries of the world, some more than others, but it is not countries that are being judged, but souls. So a good soul in China or anywhere else will be saved, and a failed soul in China and anywhere else will undergo some purging. The evil spirits such as those whose influence humanity at the global, national, local, and individual levels also get judged.

In raising the issue of interpretation of Revelation, I am definitely not an expert, and only put these things out for consideration. I will likewise look at what you or others put forward for consideration. I somehow feel that when whatever is going to happen happens, I will be as surprised as most others. Still it is stimulating to ponder the unfolding drama of end of the world as we know it, and the contemplation of the unknowable glory to come.

.

Oh, yes I missed that. Rev 12:3 had 'Red dragon' in it.

Red is the color of blood and of the clay which Adam is made from. Adam's own name means 'Red' or 'Clay' depending.

Maybe all the events in Revelation are ongoing at all times rather than unique events. The seven seals and the seven bowls may be like the seven cycles that Joshua must make around Jericho. Joshua doesn't know how many times he will have to circle the city until the last one, so the seven bowls and stars and trumps could allude to the patience required of the saints. Maybe they represent the commitment to keep going no matter what is required as do the days of the week.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Oh, yes I missed that. Rev 12:3 had 'Red dragon' in it.

Red is the color of blood and of the clay which Adam is made from. Adam's own name means 'Red' or 'Clay' depending.

Maybe all the events in Revelation are ongoing at all times rather than unique events. The seven seals and the seven bowls may be like the seven cycles that Joshua must make around Jericho. Joshua doesn't know how many times he will have to circle the city until the last one, so the seven bowls and stars and trumps could allude to the patience required of the saints. Maybe they represent the commitment to keep going no matter what is required as do the days of the week.

Yes, there is the possibility that the sevens letters, seal, bowls, etc., are cycles of time, and or explanations of esoteric workings of reality, I suppose you have come across the interpretation by Edgar Cayce of the meaning of the seven letters as relating to the seven cakras. But then it could also be describing some esoteric aspect of scientific reality. I mean seven is the number of electron orbits of the atom as per the Periodic Table of Elements, the colors of the rainbow, etc.. Why did the ancients use seven cycles of the rotation of the Earth as means of keeping track of time?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Why did the ancients use seven cycles of the rotation of the Earth as means of keeping track of time?

This could have to do with the Moon. The moon phase cycles somewhere around 28 days, and 28 is four times seven. People living without electric lights would be very interested in knowledge of which nights would have moonlight. Either they would think of the month as having four parts lasting seven days each, or they would think of it as having seven parts lasting four days each. I'm sure this captured the imagination of children and adults alike. They probably often wondered "Why four and seven?"

Yes, there is the possibility that the sevens letters, seal, bowls, etc., are cycles of time, and or explanations of esoteric workings of reality, I suppose you have come across the interpretation by Edgar Cayce of the meaning of the seven letters as relating to the seven cakras.

I'm not familiar with Edgar Cayce's writing though I was in Va Beach for a time and visited his organization library one time. It is a small library and meeting center near the oceanfront. Sorry but I don't know what you are talking about when you talk about cakras.

But then it could also be describing some esoteric aspect of scientific reality. I mean seven is the number of electron orbits of the atom as per the Periodic Table of Elements, the colors of the rainbow, etc..

I view the main goal of the writer of Revelation as counseling patience. He repeatedly counsels this. I do think its interesting that there are seven electron orbitals. All of the atomic and subatomic numbers are intriguing. Why are there two spins in each orbital? Cool.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

This could have to do with the Moon. The moon phase cycles somewhere around 28 days, and 28 is four times seven. People living without electric lights would be very interested in knowledge of which nights would have moonlight. Either they would think of the month as having four parts lasting seven days each, or they would think of it as having seven parts lasting four days each. I'm sure this captured the imagination of children and adults alike. They probably often wondered "Why four and seven?"

Good point re lunar phases, you may be correct, but there is another point re the Atom's seven electron orbits, the seven day week of the ancients had the seventh as a day of rest, whether it be Babylonian or Hebrews, why was the last day special. Now if I remember correctly, there is something different about the seventh electron orbit of Atoms compared to the other six, it is not complete, radioactivity and stuff.

I'm not familiar with Edgar Cayce's writing though I was in Va Beach for a time and visited his organization library one time. It is a small library and meeting center near the oceanfront. Sorry but I don't know what you are talking about when you talk about cakras.

The seven chakras come from the Hindu Yogic religious tradition, so I won't go there. But there is that seven there again.

I view the main goal of the writer of Revelation as counseling patience. He repeatedly counsels this. I do think its interesting that there are seven electron orbitals. All of the atomic and subatomic numbers are intriguing. Why are there two spins in each orbital? Cool.

What are the two spins in each orbital? Do you mean the spin up and spin down possibility of each electron?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Also I forgot to mention, another possibility is that the seven day week could be the result of there only being seven wanderers in the night sky observed by the ancients, and the days are named after them, from the first being Sun and the last being the Sabbath which literally means the planet Saturn, Saturday.