A Disproof of Evolution Disprovers

[Evangelicalhumanist]

TNot really. You are speaking from an American, YEC type of polemics environment. This is not a global and historical phenomena.

There is no other hand. The problem is you are coming from purely an American point of view in my opinion. I could be wrong but this is what I realised from your post. Thats why I said that "to other theists, that's a strawman".

Not at all. American viewpoint? I was under the impression that Darwin (and Wallace, while we're at it) were European-British, and Lamarck was French. Other pre-Darwin thinkers who posited some form of evolution (Pierre Louis Maupertuis, Georges-Louis Leclerc, Comte de Buffon) were likewise European. So no, not "American" at all.

 

[firedragon]

Just stop right there! And think a little more deeply:

Claims for "intelligent design" or the "Easter Bunny did it," or "we're all just brains in a vat anyway," if they are lacking evidence, must then be held to be equally likely -- along with every other possible claim that you can dream up that also lack evidence.

Is that really how you suppose getting to the truth happens? Really?

Oh. You are talking about the truth? Tell me, who said "easter bunny did it"? Can you quote the person who said so, and what evidences have they given?

 

[firedragon]

Not at all. American viewpoint? I was under the impression that Darwin (and Wallace, while we're at it) were European-British, and Lamarck was French. Other pre-Darwin thinkers who posited some form of evolution (Pierre Louis Maupertuis, Georges-Louis Leclerc, Comte de Buffon) were likewise European. So no, not "American" at all.

I didnt speak of Darwin mate. I was referring to your "YEC" ideas you were quoting. All of these ideas you have about "creationists" you are speaking of are "AMERICAN".

Please read the post properly once more.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Oh. You are talking about the truth? Tell me, who said "easter bunny did it"? Can you quote the person who said so, and what evidences have they given?

I have heard hundreds of times in my life that the Easter Bunny hides colourful eggs for people to find. Millions upon millions of children have been told that by the people that they trust the most. In fact, coloured Easter eggs have been found all over the lawns and shrubbery of the White House itself, and people were told by those in charge that these were left by the Easter Bunny.

Now why on earth would I expect the very hub of the American Government to lie, let alone all those millions of parents?

Therefore, I turn it over to you -- please provide your proof that there is no Easter Bunny who colours eggs and hides them in the spring.

Millions of children grown up were told that when they lost their decidous, if they put them under their pillow that night, the Tooth Fairy would bring them money in exchange for the tooth. I myself was told the very same thing -- and sure enough, in the morning there was no tooth and there was money! I could hardly wait for the next one to fall out.

Now, why on earth would so many responsible adults tell such an outrageous lie to children? Of course they wouldn't, and therefore it is perfectly clear that the Tooth Fairy exists, and does what she is claimed to do.

Therefore, I turn it over to you -- please provide your proof that there is no Tooth Fairy who provides money for fallen teeth.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I didnt speak of Darwin mate. I was referring to your "YEC" ideas you were quoting. All of these ideas you have about "creationists" you are speaking of are "AMERICAN".

Please read the post properly once more.

What, you suppose that those who reject evolution are only Americans? Ha! Try your hand in Turkey -- see how that goes. Then have a go in Pakistan and Indonesia.

I do now begin to see that you started this thread in order to suggest there's some way to do "research" to disprove claims made without evidence. And that was, in my view, disingenous.

I have tried to provide honest, thoughtful answers, based on known science, and you continue to ask me to disprove what has never been proven -- with the suggestion that if I can't disprove it, then it's likely true. And that is UTTER NONSENSE.

I do believe my conversation with you is over. I hate trying to be honest to people who are trying to fool me.

 

[darkskies]

And science did not say "things that cannot be defined properly" but you did. And I believe you. Science makes up important sounding words to try to define something that they cannot see or prove but need to pretend to define to make their theories work.

You are severely mistaken. Scientific theories are proven facts, including all their components.

 

[darkskies]

Because EVERYTHING could be called transitional so it really has no meaning.

No, in fact I recently learnt myself:

I was not exactly clear. No offspring, or nieces or nephews, or near nieces or nephews, or even distant relations means that it is not transitional.

Because there would be none left of the species to pass genes on.

 

[firedragon]

I have heard hundreds of times in my life that the Easter Bunny hides colourful eggs for people to find. Millions upon millions of children have been told that by the people that they trust the most. In fact, coloured Easter eggs have been found all over the lawns and shrubbery of the White House itself, and people were told by those in charge that these were left by the Easter Bunny.

What were the evidences given by those people about this easter bunny and that "he did it all"? You didnt respond to the question. Who said this anyway?

Now why on earth would I expect the very hub of the American Government to lie, let alone all those millions of parents?

Who said anything about the American government? I think you should step back from your preconceived notions and read properly or ask for clarification rather than making assumption after assumption.

Therefore, I turn it over to you -- please provide your proof that there is no Easter Bunny who colours eggs and hides them in the spring.

Nope. The burden of proof is on you because it was you who proposed this. What are doing is the burden of proof fallacy, and you know it.

Millions of children grown up were told that when they lost their decidous, if they put them under their pillow that night, the Tooth Fairy would bring them money in exchange for the tooth. I myself was told the very same thing -- and sure enough, in the morning there was no tooth and there was money! I could hardly wait for the next one to fall out.

What is the evidence they would give?

Therefore, I turn it over to you -- please provide your proof that there is no Tooth Fairy who provides money for fallen teeth.

Again, the burden of proof fallacy.

Its like someone coming up and saying "all atheists are born stupid" like some atheists say to the flip side, and when asked "what evidence do you have" they turn around and say "you prove its wrong or its its definitely true".

Burden of proof fallacy.

 

[Faithofchristian]

You know what's the most amazing thing about atheists..
Is how Atheists beat themselves up and argue over a God they don't believe in..
Atheists will say that they don't believe in God.
But yet Atheists will argue, will come up with all sorts of things trying to disprove a God they don't believe in.

If I don't believe in something I'm sure not going to go around trying to disprove something I don't believe in or argue over something I don't believe....that's how ridiculous atheist shows themselves to have no common sense or logic.
If you don't believe in something then why do you let it bother you so much..

I can only guess that without a doubt Atheists will lose slept at night over a God that they don't believe in...Lol

I've myself has come across many atheists in my life...
But none of them can answer the simple question...seeing that you don't believe in God....then why do you argue..beat yourself up over a God that you don't believe in..
Now that's what totally amazes me is
how atheists will argue..beat themselves up over a God they don't believe in..
Think about that....let that sink in.
If you don't believe in something why would you put yourself through things just to prove what you don't believe in ????...Lol

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You know what's the most amazing thing about atheists..
Is how Atheists beat themselves up and argue over a God they don't believe in..
Atheists will say that they don't believe in God.
But yet Atheists will argue, will come up with all sorts of things trying to disprove a God they don't believe in.

If I don't believe in something I'm sure not going to go around trying to disprove something I don't believe in or argue over something I don't believe....that's how ridiculous atheist shows themselves to have no common sense or logic.
If you don't believe in something then why do you let it bother you so much..

I can only guess that without a doubt Atheists will lose slept at night over a God that they don't believe in...Lol

I've myself has come across many atheists in my life...
But none of them can answer the simple question...seeing that you don't believe in God....then why do you argue..beat yourself up over a God that you don't believe in..
Now that's what totally amazes me is
how atheists will argue..beat themselves up over a God they don't believe in..
Think about that....let that sink in.
If you don't believe in something why would you put yourself through things just to prove what you don't believe in ????...Lol

I suppose this has never occurred to you -- although I've written it many times.

We atheists may not believe in the existence of gods, but we DO believe in the existence of humans. And we are interested in what humans are about. And a lot of humans are about making things up in their own minds -- and then trying to convince everybody else to believe them.

That's why.

Goodness, there's a nastiness in what you wrote. Is that common among the believers you know?

(For the record, the nastiness is contained in this: "ridiculous atheist shows themselves to have no common sense or logic.")

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What were the evidences given by those people about this easter bunny and that "he did it all"? You didnt respond to the question. Who said this anyway?



Who said anything about the American government? I think you should step back from your preconceived notions and read properly or ask for clarification rather than making assumption after assumption.



Nope. The burden of proof is on you because it was you who proposed this. What are doing is the burden of proof fallacy, and you know it.



What is the evidence they would give?



Again, the burden of proof fallacy.

Its like someone coming up and saying "all atheists are born stupid" like some atheists say to the flip side, and when asked "what evidence do you have" they turn around and say "you prove its wrong or its its definitely true".

Burden of proof fallacy.

You appear to be having difficulty with reading comprehension. I said that I and millions upon millions of children have been told about the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy -- which is a true statement -- and you turned that into the claim that I made that up. And if you do not have trouble with reading comprehension, then you are being deliberately dishonest.

In either case, thanks for the conversation, but I'm done with you.

 

[firedragon]

You appear to be having difficulty with reading comprehension. I said that I and millions upon millions of children have been told about the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy -- which is a true statement

You were told that the easter bunny does the same thing as this so called "God" that theists believe?

Anyway, you said that millions of children have been told the same right? Can you prove this?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You were told that the easter bunny does the same thing as this so called "God" that theists believe?

Anyway, you said that millions of children have been told the same right? Can you prove this?

He can prove his claims just as well as you can prove yours.

That was the point of his claim.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You were told that the easter bunny does the same thing as this so called "God" that theists believe?

Anyway, you said that millions of children have been told the same right? Can you prove this?

There, you have proved it. You have difficulty with reading for comprehension. Here is what I said, quoted word for word: "I have heard hundreds of times in my life that the Easter Bunny hides colourful eggs for people to find. Millions upon millions of children have been told that by the people that they trust the most. In fact, coloured Easter eggs have been found all over the lawns and shrubbery of the White House itself, and people were told by those in charge that these were left by the Easter Bunny."

Now, read it again. See where it says "Easter Bunny hides colourful eggs for people to find?" See that? Does that say "Easter Bunny does the same thing as this so called 'God' that theists believe?" Does it even come close?

Read the darned words I wrote -- not what you'd like me to have written so that you can make nasty retorts trying to make me look like an idiot!

 

[firedragon]

There, you have proved it. You have difficulty with reading for comprehension. Here is what I said, quoted word for word: "I have heard hundreds of times in my life that the Easter Bunny hides colourful eggs for people to find. Millions upon millions of children have been told that by the people that they trust the most. In fact, coloured Easter eggs have been found all over the lawns and shrubbery of the White House itself, and people were told by those in charge that these were left by the Easter Bunny."

Now, read it again. See where it says "Easter Bunny hides colourful eggs for people to find?" See that? Does that say "Easter Bunny does the same thing as this so called 'God' that theists believe?" Does it even come close?

Read the darned words I wrote -- not what you'd like me to have written so that you can make nasty retorts trying to make me look like an idiot!

So are you saying that "easter bunny cannot do the same things"? I can read this same post a million times, but it still will not cover the fact that you said "easter bunny does the same thing".

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

You are severely mistaken. Scientific theories are proven facts, including all their components.

I think they are called THEORIES because they are explanations of observed processes but cannot be called facts. Many theories have changed over time as new evidence was found. Science is not even sure if light is a particle or a wave because it acts like both. Theories are not facts.

 

[darkskies]

I think they are called THEORIES because they are explanations of observed processes but cannot be called facts. Many theories have changed over time as new evidence was found. Science is not even sure if light is a particle or a wave because it acts like both. Theories are not facts.

Theories are literally just collections of facts based on the data available.
The details concerning some parts of theories change as new evidence is encountered, because scientists try to explain phenomena based ONLY on evidence that they have during their time.
Most of the time this happens with increase in sophistication of our methods.
Science is sure that light is both particular and a wave.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Theories are literally just collections of facts based on the data available.
The details concerning some parts of theories change as new evidence is encountered, because scientists try to explain phenomena based ONLY on evidence that they have during their time.
Most of the time this happens with increase in sophistication of our methods.
Science is sure that light is both particular and a wave.

Well you said it yourself, theories change. Unfortunately it is a fact that facts never change.

 

[McBell]

Well you said it yourself, theories change. Unfortunately it is a fact that facts never change.

You really need to work on your reading comprehension skills.
Theories are an explanation of the facts.
Meaning that theories use factz to make explanations of how things work.
Some times as more facts are discovered, the theory has to be changed to account for the new facts.

Sometimes it is revealed that a fact is not actually a fact.
Sometimes we find out that a fact only applies in certain circumstances.
So again, the theory has to be changed to accommodate that.

 

[Heyo]

You know what's the most amazing thing about atheists..

You know what's the most amazing thing about theists?
It's their lack of reading comprehension and lack of ability to stick to the subject.

Is how Atheists beat themselves up and argue over a God they don't believe in..
Atheists will say that they don't believe in God.
But yet Atheists will argue, will come up with all sorts of things trying to disprove a God they don't believe in.

While I share your critique about atheists (for completely different reasons) this OP isn't even about atheists or the (non) belief in god(s).
The OP is about creationists (the young earth kind), their misunderstanding and denial of science and their ridiculous attempts to justify their opinion.
The creationists happen to be theists in this example and the defenders of science happen to be atheists and agnostics. But there are even more theists who support the sciences, they are just not as vocal.

If I don't believe in something I'm sure not going to go around trying to disprove something I don't believe in or argue over something I don't believe....that's how ridiculous atheist shows themselves to have no common sense or logic.
If you don't believe in something then why do you let it bother you so much..

Again, this not about the non belief in gods, it is about a belief in science. And I see it as worthwhile to defend a tool that aloud our modern way of life against a superstition that would bring us back into a new dark age.

I can only guess that without a doubt Atheists will lose slept at night over a God that they don't believe in...Lol

I've myself has come across many atheists in my life...
But none of them can answer the simple question...seeing that you don't believe in God....then why do you argue..beat yourself up over a God that you don't believe in..

As shown, that is not the question here. You might want to open a new OP to ask that question.