A Double Standard?

[Revoltingest]

I recall that the left defended Bill Clinton's crimes, ie, lying
to a grand jury, suborning perjury, as justified because it
was only about sex, & that he was protecting his family.
It could be said that Trump paid hush money that was
only about sex, & that he was protecting his family (yes,
I actually heard that from the right).

Should both be prosecuted? Or if only Trump, why
give a pass to one Prez committing crimes, but not
to another?

Caution:
Before tempers flare, & feces fly...I'll state clearly
that this is not a defense of Trump. I want him
prosecuted for crimes, especially related to the
Jan 6 insurrection.
Further, if Trump is arrested, he should be hand
cuffed, just as the little people are. Politicians
shouldn't be above the justice system that afflicts
the masses.

 

[LuisDantas]

Not seeing any similarities, myself.

But that is to be expected; those are two entirely different situations, starting with the behavior of the two people.

That both happened to at some point have to defend themselves from claims of unproper sexual behavior is essentially an accident with no meaning.

 

[SomeRandom]

I’m a lefty and I think both should be locked up
But then again I’m not American so I’m actually a leftist so…

 

[Heyo]

I recall that the left defended Bill Clinton's crimes, ie, lying
to a grand jury, suborning perjury, as justified because it
was only about sex, & that he was protecting his family.
It could be said that Trump paid hush money that was
only about sex, & that he was protecting his family (yes,
I actually heard that from the right).

Should both be prosecuted? Or if only Trump, why
give a pass to one Prez committing crimes, but not
to another?

Caution:
Before tempers flare, & feces fly...I'll state clearly
that this is not a defense of Trump. I want him
prosecuted for crimes, especially related to the
Jan 6 insurrection.
Further, if Trump is arrested, he should be hand
cuffed, just as the little people are. Politicians
shouldn't be above the justice system that afflicts
the masses.

Help my memory, weren't they both indicted and both acquitted by their peers?
The current looming indictment before a court in New York is not about sex or lying to congress but for breaking election finance law. So, no double standard (between dems and pubs) so far.
I agree that there is a double standard between high ranking politicians and other people, though. If Justitia was really blind, not only Clinton and Trump would be in jail but the whole Bush jr. administration as well.

 

[Estro Felino]

I wonder this:
is it normal that people care about a President's sex life?
I couldn't care less.
It is not normal. Whether it is Bill Clinton, Trump, Bush, Reagan and so on.
Americans do care whether Obama is the perfect family man, who has never cheated on his wife.
As if this were something politically relevant.

You can be the most faithful husband in the world and still be a traitor to the West you are supposed to represent.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I wonder this:
is it normal that people care about a President's sex life?
I couldn't care less.
It is not normal. Whether it is Bill Clinton, Trump, Bush, Reagan and so on.
Americans do care whether Obama is the perfect family man, who has never cheated on his wife.
As if this were something politically relevant.

You can be the most faithful husband in the world and still be a traitor to the West you are supposed to represent.

I speak for the West, you don't. You are the traitor, I am not.

 

[Estro Felino]

I speak for the West, you don't. You are the traitor, I am not.

Whom have I betrayed?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Whom have I betrayed?

You are not the West, I am. Your understanding is not correct. I speak for the People of the West. You don't and thus you are a traitor, because you claim you do. Simple.

Note, the problem is that you claim absolute authority over the People and the West. I am just teasing you. And trying to stop you from doing that and learning the world is more complex that the People and the Deep State.

 

[Estro Felino]

You are not the West, I am. Your understanding is not correct. I speak for the People of the West. You don't and thus you are a traitor, because you claim you do. Simple.

Note, the problem is that you claim absolute authority over the People and the West. I am just teasing you. And trying to stop you from doing that and learning the world is more complex that the People and the Deep State.

All of us, here express personal opinions.
I have never claimed I possess the truth or the absolute truth
That's what a debate is all about: you share personal opinions and you debate with whoever disagrees with them.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

All of us, here express personal opinions.
I have never claimed I possess the truth or the absolute truth
That's what a debate is all about: you share personal opinions and you debate with whoever disagrees with them.

Yes, you do in part. But only in part because some of what you claim, is not opinions. It is facts about the world and the humans in it.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, you do in part. But only in part because some of what you claim, is not opinions. It is facts about the world and the humans in it.

No, you're wrong, I am sorry.
Because in my language it's taken for granted the capability of distinguishing between expressing personal opinions and stating facts as truths.
It's the context.
I don't know your language, but since I speak German pretty well I know that the verbal structure within German is different than Italian, as for expressing personal opinions. So I guess Danish is not that dissimilar from German...right?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So the West and traitor in combination is nothing but opinions and being a traitor is not related to possible jail time and so on.
It is your personal feelings and nothing else.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Not seeing any similarities, myself.

But that is to be expected; those are two entirely different situations, starting with the behavior of the two people.

That both happened to at some point have to defend themselves from claims of unproper sexual behavior is essentially an accident with no meaning.

Winner. To @Revoltingest That is it.

 

[SomeRandom]

I wonder this:
is it normal that people care about a President's sex life?
I couldn't care less.
It is not normal. Whether it is Bill Clinton, Trump, Bush, Reagan and so on.
Americans do care whether Obama is the perfect family man, who has never cheated on his wife.
As if this were something politically relevant.

You can be the most faithful husband in the world and still be a traitor to the West you are supposed to represent.

It is rather odd, I will say.
Americans seemingly care about sex scandals way too much

Not that we don’t. But I couldn’t care less if my PM had 50 sexual conquests
Though knowing Aussies, I suspect a PM who has multiple affairs would likely be offered a beer and a high five lol

 

[Revoltingest]

Help my memory, weren't they both indicted and both acquitted by their peers?

No.
Clinton was impeached, but not found guilty by the Senate.
However, impeachment is a political process rather than a
trial to determine guilt of a crime. (Guilt is only one of the
considerations. The biggest is whether or not to de-fang
the defendant, ie, the President.) After leaving office, he
could be prosecuted conventionally.
I've already forgotten why Trump was impeached....twice.
So many mis-deeds...so little memory.

Setting the legality aside, Clinton's apologists justified the
crimes of committing & suborning perjury by claiming that
he protected his family by avoiding scandal.
This is identical to what I've heard from Trump's apologists
regarding the hush money, which isn't a crime per se.
Prosecutors are seeking how it could be made criminal.

The current looming indictment before a court in New York is not about sex or lying to congress but for breaking election finance law. So, no double standard (between dems and pubs) so far.

There are always differences between crimes committed
by 2 different people. Partisans are want to seize upon
differences in detail, in order to excuse their own, & to
demonize the other, but this mischief ignores salient
similarities.
Clinton committed crimes that stemmed from a sexual
dalliance. Trump paid hush money that stemmed from
a sexual dalliance....which could be criminal, depending
on how the money was handled, & upon election
reporting requirements.

I agree that there is a double standard between high ranking politicians and other people, though. If Justitia was really blind, not only Clinton and Trump would be in jail but the whole Bush jr. administration as well.

What did Bush do that was actually illegal & outside
of the usual presidential lying that's part of the job?

 

[Revoltingest]

Not seeing any similarities, myself.

But that is to be expected; those are two entirely different situations, starting with the behavior of the two people.

That both happened to at some point have to defend themselves from claims of unproper sexual behavior is essentially an accident with no meaning.

Ordinary citizens are prosecuted for such things as lying
when testifying, & suborning perjury. Doing so because
it relates to sex is not exculpating. Yet Clinton wasn't
prosecuted.
Generally....
Republicans wanted Clinton convicted, but Democrats opposed it.
Democrats want Trump prosecuted, but Republicans oppose it.
You really cannot see a double standard?

 

[Heyo]

I wonder this:
is it normal that people care about a President's sex life?
I couldn't care less.

Neither could I. But this is not about their sex life. Clinton lied about it which was the problem. And Trump used campaign money to pay the hush money which is why he is indicted now.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is rather odd, I will say.
Americans seemingly care about sex scandals way too much

Not that we don’t. But I couldn’t care less if my PM had 50 sexual conquests
Though knowing Aussies, I suspect a PM who has multiple affairs would likely be offered a beer and a high five lol

Sex scandals, eg, Risky Business, wide stances in toilet stalls
are indeed great theater here. But sometimes sex scandals
entail crimes, eg, lying to authorities, which is a crime that
sends many ordinary civilians to prison.
A problem is that Presidents are treated as above the law.
And their crimes are excused by their apologists for the
reasons they had, eg, avoiding sex scandals.

 

[Heyo]

What did Bush do that was actually illegal & outside
of the usual presidential lying that's part of the job?

Let's start with high treason. Remember Valery Plame?

 

[Revoltingest]

Neither could I. But this is not about their sex life. Clinton lied about it which was the problem.

It wasn't the lying per se that was criminal. It was that
he lied under oath to a grand jury. And he suborned
perjury. Such things send many people to prison.

And Trump used campaign money to pay the hush money which is why he is indicted now.

I eagerly await his arrest, trial, conviction, & sentencing.
But I expect to be disappointed in they system treating
him like royalty with impunity.