A Gay Christian?

[Callmepaul]

When you say the issue is acting on a sexual attraction - obviously you are saying that the issue is in having sexual relations. And when you compare having gay sexual relations to straight men acting out sexually with teenage girls - you are saying that you place both acts on an equal basis. In other words, gay relationships are on a par with paedophilia!
Then let's take this one step further and I'll ask you how you feel about sexual relations within the bounds of a committed relationship. And I'll even extend that to say how about within a marriage? If two people are married, does your opinion still hold that it is still on a par with paedophilia?
Isn't that, in essence, what the evangelical community is forcing upon gays and lesbians when they say "we don't want you to marry"? Evangelicals believe that the sanctity of marriage will somehow be threatened if it is extended to same sex couples. So they are saying you are committing sin when you co-habit or have relations but we deny you the privilege of sanctifying your relationship. Go and sin no more they say - meaning live a celibate lifestyle. What an unfeeling, selfish and ungodly attitude.
You agree that we cannot control what we are attracted to. There are many Christians who are now willing to concede the same thing. But they believe celibacy is the only alternative to acting out in sin. Somehow, I don't believe God expects millions of his children to be denied the gift of being united together in spirit and flesh. If celibacy were so easy, there would be fewer priests failing the test.

 

[The Great Architect]

Does Jesus speak about this at any point in the Bible? From what I have read so far, he is the epitome of compassion and love. (But this has been said many times before.)

I'm not trying to speak for Christ in any way, but being who he was, I don't think he would have a problem with it.

We, as humans, can only guess about these things.

 

[Puglove]

If you are gay, and you believe it is a sin to have sex with the same sex, then I suppose you can try strive to not have sex with the sex.And if you do not believe it is a sin then go straight ahead, I guess no one can live your life for you, and in the end you answer for yourself when the day of your judgement comes, but I believe that it is still right for people to try to help and guide you along which path is "right" isn"t that the right thing to do anyway? Ofcourse the debate always occurs on what is "right" and what is "wrong". People often seem so quick to judge and so slow to lend a hand, but I believe that at least trying to lend a hand is noteworthy if the person rejects your help then fine you tried.

When it comes to people being gay or lesbian you often find people judging you rather than helping, I dunno really, It is so weird how so many people have different beliefs, that when you do try to lend a hand it is rejected as being you trying to push you belief upon another.

I always have liked to believe that God will never give you something which he knows you can't handle (don't flame me please I know alot of people would object to that)
So perhaps in being gay, God is giving us a choice, yes we have feeling to people of the same sex, but to have intercourse with the same sex is completely up to us, it is in that realization that you have to love God in all his wonder for giving us the gift of choice, I guess you should live life in the way you believe is right yet, also do not blind yourself in pride so as to block out the fact that you could be wrong, that perhaps what you doing is not right, always open yourself up to different opinions, and when someone says "it is wrong to have sex with the same gender" instead of recoiling in disgust and indignation that they judge you and say what you are doing is wrong, rather listen to why they believe it is wrong and explain your few points, and perhaps in the middle of it all you will find a solution. Either way so many people believe differently I guess you just have to have faith that you are living your life the way God wants you to, and strive to perfect that life as much as you can, obviously you are not perfect, but that does mean you don't have to try to overcome temptation and sin and if you are gay and believe that having sex with the same sex is wrong then strive to abstain, and often it helps just to talk it over with someone and let them give their point of view.

O well i guess as long as we try to please God to our fullest He is happy and the desire to please does ,infact, please him.

(and please don't flame me if this upsets you I am just giving my point of view)

 

[cobizig]

if we feel that we have asked forgiveness for all of our sins and have nothing else to repent for, do we repent for the lack of thinking to think of something to repent about, or is that redundant. beacuse i have come to the point where i am done praying for sins to where i have nothing left.. i dont know if i should pray even harder or if he has really even forgiven even my worst sins, i have no idea what to think of before i pray. or is prayer an inner peace ritual. doesnt God just judge us upon actions not inner peace?

 

[Mike182]

if we feel that we have asked forgiveness for all of our sins and have nothing else to repent for, do we repent for the lack of thinking to think of something to repent about, or is that redundant. beacuse i have come to the point where i am done praying for sins to where i have nothing left.. i dont know if i should pray even harder or if he has really even forgiven even my worst sins, i have no idea what to think of before i pray. or is prayer an inner peace ritual. doesnt God just judge us upon actions not inner peace?

welcome to the forums cobizig i'm not entirely sure though, what does your post have to do with gay Christians?

 

[joeboonda]

There was an officer in a church who was caught drunk several times and was kicked out of church. When Billy Graham was told this he asked what the rest of the verse said: (basicaly) Don't be drunk on wine, but be filled with the Holy Spirit. He then asked if everyone in that church was always filled with the Holy Spirit and if not why were they not kicked out. While homsexuality is considered a sin in the Bible: (Romans 1: 24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.) Does this not apply to all of us? Perhaps we may have not "left the natural use", but we all have gone astray, we all have committed grievous sins, sexual and/or otherwise before Holy God. Is that not so? Do we not err in many ways, do we not all sin? Has not the Bible concluded ALL under sin? I am sure it has.

While this and other verses would seem to conclude it as a perversion of what God intended, the Bible also says we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. It says even Christians sin and if we say we don't it says we are liars! We all know we are sinners with weaknesses in different areas and we are only human, so we do not always understand, recognize, or admit our sinfulness, but we all do sin. I think it is a matter between us and the Holy Spirit, for if we have trusted Christ, the Holy Spirit is working in us teaching, guiding, leading us from where we were as we came to Christ "just as we are", to becoming more and more like Him as we grow in grace. Say a fellow has slightly longer hair than those around him, or is trying to quit smoking but hasn't quite, or lets a curse word slip, or gazes at a woman a little too long, or enjoys a drink in the evening and sometimes overdoes it, or fill in the blank, etc. and folks see it. They are not to judge, all have weaknesses they are fighting, they simply don't know where one is on their walk with the Lord. Sometimes those with a critical spirit have some flaws in their theology, eh? (i.e. not trusting Christ alone to have saved them but in Christ and their own goodness to hopefully save them) We are not to judge the outward appearance, for God looks at our hearts. We each become aware of our own sinfulness before the Lord, I don't believe we need others telling us except in serious circumstances, and this the Bible does say to do if we see a brother needing help, we are to help them, but we must be very careful in how we approach them.

More often than not, a believer knows or comes to the realization of their sinfulness before God on their own with the Holy Spirit's working in them. We rarely need others to tell us our sins, we are quite aware of them on our own most of the time. While I do not understand the whole homosexual thing, I do know we are to have respect, compassion, mercy and love toward each other and most of all pray for one another that we would be open to the guiding and teaching of the Holy Spirit to show us where we need to change and grow, to show us right from wrong, and to claim the promises that being dead in Christ we are positionaly dead to sin and can and do have power over it. Not that we are sinless, for we shall not be completely without the sin nature until we are transformed incorruptible (sinless), immortal, and glorified in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. I don't mean to be easy on sin, for we must hate sin when we identify it and must stand against it. But we must remember that we all sin and instead of condemning each other we should pray for each other and love each other for love covers a multitude of sins.

 

[Ashley-Yin]

when someone says "it is wrong to have sex with the same gender" instead of recoiling in disgust and indignation that they judge you and say what you are doing is wrong, rather listen to why they believe it is wrong and explain your few points, and perhaps in the middle of it all you will find a solution.

not having ago at you personally.

i can see what your saying, i make it a habit to do that
my issue is that to tell me that i am immoral
for being bi
being a transsexual woman
having sex with men with a male body (as i do now)
having sex with women with a female body (as i will do)
or anything similar.
is just as offensive as being told i am inferior to someone just for having black skin.
my ancestors were told they were less than human because of their black skin, this wasnt written in the bible(as far as im aware). and lets just say for arguments sake that it is in some way(crystal clear or not) written in the bible that anything other that heterosexuality is a sin, i find it offensive still that it is it written down, in i dont know how many languages and is as ive heard the biggest selling book of all time.

have i left anything out that i could be prejudiced against?
oh yeah being a Buddhist(perfect)

you see what it all boils down to is throughout my 23 years of life not one single person nor god has given me a decent, convincing explanation as to why any of these one things that makes me who i am is wrong.

SO COME ON, TELL ME WHY

 

[Charity]

Yes we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.....We are considered Christians because we came to the knowledge of the truth, confessed our sins and ask forgiveness. "If we sin wilfully after we come to the knowledge of our sins there remains no more sacrifice for our sins." which means if we continue on in a sin after we become aware of it then we are treading on dangerous ground with the Lord.
Being a Christian means to be Christ like. The gay lifestyle is condemned by God, old testament and the new testament....
You can repent of your transgression, be saved, set free to begin a new life as a Christian. Yes God loves you and will take you as you are, but He doesn't expect you to stay the way you are...
This may sound strange but I have to say I admire the Atheist's, they tell you they don't believe in God they are honest, and do not portray a hypocritical existence.
No compromise on the word of God, says what it means, and means what it says

 

[Smoke]

Is there a polite way to inform fundamentalist or evangilical christians that as a gay man you believe God accepts you as you are and you have no need to repent? How do you combat the concept that you are living a 'chosen' lifestyle?

Fundamentalists and Evangelicals are trying to sell you something you don't want or need. They're not unlike door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesmen, except that the vacuum cleaner salemen are selling something useful.

Just say, "Thank you, but I'm not interested." They won't give up so easily, but just keep saying it.

 

[Alceste]

Is there a polite way to inform fundamentalist or evangilical christians that as a gay man you believe God accepts you as you are and you have no need to repent? How do you combat the concept that you are living a 'chosen' lifestyle?

You could avoid the problem altogether by moving to Canada and joining the Anglican or United Church. Not only will you not have to argue with homophobes, you will have the added benefit of being able to legally marry the man you love in the same place you worship your God.

There is plenty of research available about the ABCs of human sexuality - if those who persist in thinking your sexual orientation is a "choice" are not convinced by any of this they won't be convinced by you. Don't waste your time or your breath. Sexuality may not be a choice but ignorance certainly is, and those who have chosen it almost certainly will never accept any information that falls outside the narrow sphere of their unfounded convictions.

If you're not up for a big move north and aren't in the market for a new congregation, I would say the best way to "argue" with a fundamentalist is to go ahead and live a Christ-like life. Do good works, be charitable and forgiving, love your God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself and turn the other cheek. Setting an impeccable Christian example might penetrate the conceptual barbed wire of the occasional fundamentalist mind. The change has to come from inside themselves - if enough anomalous information goes in, eventually their opinions might be forced to adapt - although I wouldn't hold my breath in the case of religious fundamentalists. In general, their threshold for anomalous information seems to be quite high.

 

[Alceste]

When you say the issue is acting on a sexual attraction - obviously you are saying that the issue is in having sexual relations. And when you compare having gay sexual relations to straight men acting out sexually with teenage girls - you are saying that you place both acts on an equal basis.

From what I remember (having been a teenage girl) there are PLENTY of straight men who would like to act out sexually with teenage girls. Don't take it so hard.

 

[yousaf]

the bible i believe is against gays:
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. (romans ch. v.22-27

 

[Alceste]

the bible i believe is against gays:
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. (romans ch. v.22-27

The Bible is also against eating shellfish and pro slavery. What's your point?

 

[Smoke]

the bible i believe is against gays:
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. (romans ch. v.22-27

Thank you, but I'm not interested.

See?

 

[texan1]

the bible i believe is against gays:
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. (romans ch. v.22-27

But where does it specifically say it's a sin? Funny if it is so important Jesus doesn't mention it and it is not in the 10 commandments.

You know, I was thinking - one of the 10 commandments says "Thou shall not covet your neighbor's wife". But it doesn't say anything about your neighbor's husband. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and interpret that to mean that God is cool with the gays.

 

[uu_sage]

Its perfectly acceptable to be gay and Christian. Jesus, being the prophetic voice, and the itinerant Rabbi he was sat with sinners, tax collectors, Samaritans and others that the mainstream religious people thought were unworthy, or "unclean"His life is filled with examples of revolutionary actions including sparing a woman from being stoned, overturning the moneychangers in the temple, healing people on the sabbath, and forgiving his enemies. He bears witness to a concept of God, and he lives out his concept. His concept is of a loving, merciful, and deeply relational parent who he affectionately calls "Abba" or Daddy. He illustrates God's unconditional love in parables as the Good Samaritan, the Prodigal Son, and the Shepherd and the 100 sheep.

In fact, in Matthew 8:5-13, the passage where Jesus is asked by a centurion if he will heal his servant. Interestingly enough, the word doulos usually translated as servant is not used. However, the word pais, means boy/servant. Its quite possible this is referring to a junior officer posing as a same-sex partner that was common in the Roman military.

And lets not forget the loving relationship between Ruth and Naomi or David and Jonathan.

To those who cite the Levitcal code to justify their homophobia, this same code says one can't plant a seed in the same ground, eat seafood, having sex with a woman on her period and the prohibition is against abusive temple ritual sex and has nothing to do with homosexuality.

In regard to Sodom and Gommorah, their sins were in hospitality, and indifference to the poor and needy (Ezekiel 16:49)

And Romans 2 overturns Romans 1

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

OK, even if homosexuality was a sin, God does not condemn you as a false Christian if you lie, have lustful thoughts, tell a dirty joke from time to time, swear, have sex outside of marriage, steal, envy, be jealous, show pride etc etc etc. So why would he condemn someone as a false Christian because they are gay?

 

[bobhikes]

All that matters are your beliefs and the beliefs of your creator. You are using large letters to try and attract attention. This to me indicates that something is askew.

When a roman catholic calls me a murder or infant killer because I am pro-choice. It bothers me not. They tell me that I am a sinner and can't recieve the host. They don't go to my church and can't stop me. I believe that I am fine with my choices and as such happy with them and my life.

This is what you need to accomplish not make others see you as you want them to see you they never will. People will always have a problem with your beliefs you are the one who can't.


Bob

 

[Diederick]

Is there a polite way to inform fundamentalist or evangilical christians that as a gay man you believe God accepts you as you are and you have no need to repent? How do you combat the concept that you are living a 'chosen' lifestyle?

You shouldn't have to be polite, there's nothing wrong with you and you did not choose this 'lifestyle' - unless you vowed to only wear designer clothing, of course. The evangelical Christians are the ones that need to be polite in informing you about their chosen lifestyle. They are the cause of the potential problem here, not you.

My advise would be to steer clear from religion, especially when you're in the scapegoat category. But that's your choice (to steer into religion or not), and I guess I can respect that. As long as you're not Ted Haggard and tell the rest of the **** to go to hell, while you F around with some male prostitute.

 

[my opinion]

Genetics are leaning in your favour. When and if it becomes established that it is in the genes, the onus is back on god.