A glance at Saudi government-approved fatwas

[Sahar]

You mean the imaginary, utopian Islamic system?

Well, it's not imaginary as you imagine. There should be a distinction between the theoretical teachings of Islam on one hand, and the attempt of its application by Muslims on the other hand. This distinction is extremely important. Also, the ideal implementation of Shari'a was during the prophet's time and the rightly guided Khilafa time so they manifest the best practical application of Islam and it's Shari'a. (I have said this statement like a dozen of times but no harm to repeat it again).

 

[Autodidact]

Well, it's not imaginary as you imagine. There should be a distinction between the theoretical teachings of Islam on one hand, and the attempt of its application by Muslims on the other hand. This distinction is extremely important. Also, the ideal implementation of Shari'a was during the prophet's time and the rightly guided Khilafa time so they manifest the best practical application of Islam and it's Shari'a. (I have said this statement like a dozen of times but no harm to repeat it again).

It's not? Where can we go and see this form of government?

 

[beenie]

You are confusing between the fatwa and the government. In addition, we need scholars and their fatwa to know what is halal and what is haram. How can we know our religion without the knowledgeable scholars and specialists?
"It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path." Qur'an

I'm not confusing the two.
in shari'ah government, laws are put forth based upon fatwas...which are supposedly based on the Qur'an. a fatwa was made (for a reason I'll never understand) that women cannot drive in Saudi Arabia. that fatwa was implemented and enforced by the government...therefore, the choice of driving has been made on behalf of all Saudi women.

that's what I mean by free choice. why can't I decide if I can drive or not? I know we're talking about something else here, but my example still applies. in true Shar'i law, there is no differentiation between scholar issued fatwas and government since they're both "based" on the same principles, the Qur'an.

for what it's worth, I have no idea where women's driving was discussed in Quran or Hadith.

 

[Bismillah]

Women are allowed to drive on private property in Saudi Arabia, but cannot drive on public grounds i.e highways.

 

[Meow Mix]

Women are allowed to drive on private property in Saudi Arabia, but cannot drive on public grounds i.e highways.

What's the reasoning behind it, out of curiosity?

 

[Autodidact]

Women are allowed to drive on private property in Saudi Arabia, but cannot drive on public grounds i.e highways.

Oh well in that case...:thud:

 

[Badran]

What's the reasoning behind it, out of curiosity?

I'll just quote you an answer i got in another thread as i didn't know the answer neither. ssainhu replied to me with this quote which is taken from a website:

As far as the actual act of driving is concerned, it is permissible per se for a woman to drive.

However, since driving for a woman breaches a number of Shar?ee laws governing Hijaab, etc. we say that it is not permissible for her to drive. We all know the opportunities of sin, shamelessness, unnecessary emergence from the home, etc. this brings about.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Muhammad Kadwa
FATWA DEPT.

Ask-Imam.com [7272] Are women allowed to drive?

Assuming this reasoning resembles something similar to that of Saudi Arabia it just serves to show you how far they go with their unbelievable rules, which are viewed by most Muslims as laughable stuff. The bolded part particularly says a lot.

 

[beenie]

yes, it's absolutely ridiculous.
notice how those "scholars" cannot site anything from the Qur'an that substantiates that nonsense. what does driving have to do with hijab? how does a woman stepping out of her house bring about sinful behavior?

 

[Badran]

yes, it's absolutely ridiculous.
notice how those "scholars" cannot site anything from the Qur'an that substantiates that nonsense. what does driving have to do with hijab? how does a woman stepping out of her house bring about sinful behavior?

Not to mention that there is no such thing as "laws governing hijab", hijab is not a law.

 

[beenie]

Not to mention that there is no such thing as "laws governing hijab", hijab is not a law.

truth

 

[Meow Mix]

I'll just quote you an answer i got in another thread as i didn't know the answer neither. ssainhu replied to me with this quote which is taken from a website:

Assuming this reasoning resembles something similar to that of Saudi Arabia it just serves to show you how far they go with their unbelievable rules, which are viewed by most Muslims as laughable stuff. The bolded part particularly says a lot.

yes, it's absolutely ridiculous.
notice how those "scholars" cannot site anything from the Qur'an that substantiates that nonsense. what does driving have to do with hijab? how does a woman stepping out of her house bring about sinful behavior?

Not to mention that there is no such thing as "laws governing hijab", hijab is not a law.

truth

Wow

It's like 1950's America: women's place is in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant.

Although a lot of really "good" jokes came from that.

Why doesn't a woman need a watch? Because there's one on the kitchen stove.

Why are a woman's feet so small? So she can fit between the dishwasher and the stove.

What do you tell a woman with two black eyes? Nothing you haven't already told her twice...

Say a tree falls in the middle of a forest surrounded by women. Does it make a sound? Who cares; the important question is why aren't those women in their kitchens?!

 

[Autodidact]

It all drives me almost blind from anger. It's so oppressive to women. Countries need to learn that what is good for women is good for the country. No wonder they're so miserable there.

btw, I read an excellent novel called Consequences of Love that takes place in Saudi Arabia, and it makes it sound like the gayest place in the world. Apparently it's common for otherwise heterosexual men to take male lovers, because they have no opportunity to date women. Very weird scene.

 

[Meow Mix]

It all drives me almost blind from anger. It's so oppressive to women. Countries need to learn that what is good for women is good for the country. No wonder they're so miserable there.

Tee hee, you said "drives."

btw, I read an excellent novel called Consequences of Love that takes place in Saudi Arabia, and it makes it sound like the gayest place in the world. Apparently it's common for otherwise heterosexual men to take male lovers, because they have no opportunity to date women. Very weird scene.

But is there any data on that? How do we know if it's like that?

 

[Revoltingest]

btw, I read an excellent novel called Consequences of Love that takes place in Saudi Arabia, and it makes it sound like the gayest place in the world. Apparently it's common for otherwise heterosexual men to take male lovers, because they have no opportunity to date women. Very weird scene.

Hmmmm....sounds analogous to Catholic clergy. Makes sense that it would happen.

 

[Autodidact]

But is there any data on that? How do we know if it's like that?

I don't know. A beautiful book, very romantic. Main character was an immigrant from Sudan, and so is the author, so I gave it some credibility.

 

[Mister Emu]

What's the reasoning behind it, out of curiosity?

All the accidents averted?
:rimshot

kidding, kidding.

 

[Revoltingest]

All the accidents averted?

Hmmm...you might have something there.
No drivers stopped at freeway entrance ramps just cuz they can't merge.
No drivers plowing into you cuz they were applying lipstick.
No drivers recklessly speeding cuz they're in a hurry to buy gas before they run out.
No drivers.....you get the picture.

 

[Meow Mix]

Hmmm...you might have something there.
No drivers stopped at freeway entrance ramps just cuz they can't merge.
No drivers plowing into you cuz they were applying lipstick.
No drivers recklessly speeding cuz they're in a hurry to buy gas before they run out.
No drivers.....you get the picture.

I can merge, I do last minute touchups at stop lights and stop signs... and I do sort of let my gas light turn on before I get gas though. Hmm.

 

[Revoltingest]

I can merge, I do last minute touchups at stop lights and stop signs... and I do sort of let my gas light turn on before I get gas though. Hmm.

Well, duh! You're hardly the ordinary female. Sheezayam & golly.... you'd put 99% of guys to shame.

 

[Sahar]

Ok, so we should ban:
Hang-gliding, mountain climbing, roller skating, all vehicles, etc. on the basis of preventing the harm all of them quite frequently cause.

We should also ban religions since people who take them in excess cause harm, and the idea is to ban anything for EVERYONE to prevent harm just because of the actions of a few who abuse it, right? So religion should be banned if this idea is true. Right?

Roller skating is clearly a menace to society because some people will injure themselves and thus harm the society with their medical bills, right?

No, I was talking about psychoactive substances that lead to judgment impairment and consequently becoming an important factor in violent crimes. Not to mention, there are many drugs that are illegal in secular democracies, so I don't know what you try to argue about.
As for smoking, no one can stop you from smoking but also we shouldn't share in harming others, if you want to harm yourself by yourself, go ahead...but allowing for industries that offer nothing but harm to others is another thing.
Obesity doesn't lead to impaired judgment and is not an important factor in violent crimes.