A Gnostic account of the world (in brief)

[Daemon Sophic]

PS - if a god is not infinite (by definition, lower-case “g”), then he is just some kind of very powerful alien creature. And one must then ask, then who does this alien see as The One True and All-Powerful God (upper-case “G”)?
Or is it turtles all the way down?

 

[Link]

PS - if a god is not infinite (by definition, lower-case “g”), then he is just some kind of very powerful alien creature. And one must then ask, then who does this alien see as The One True and All-Powerful God (upper-case “G”)?

Yeah I figured this much. But interested to see why the light forces do not wage a war. One has to prevail, but cowering from fear even if you can fail, to me is not an option here.

Also, what is the source of "goodness", if both are said to be equal and finite? How do they know who is right?

 

[AdamjEdgar]

In my belief system, there is a Great God in a Lightworld (which you can think of as Heaven) and a separate being (Krun) who rules over a separate Darkworld.

The Great God created countless immortal Angels and countless immortal souls/spirits, including human souls/spirits. One of the Angels (Ptahil) created the evil, lower material world against the Great God's Wishes, with the assistance of one of the Darkworld's Demonic inhabitants, Ruha, using material from the Darkworld as a prison for human souls/spirits. Ptahil traps human souls/spirits in his material world and it is for us to learn to free ourselves from attachment to this world over successive lifetimes so that we can return to the Lightworld. We are aided in this by various salvific beings.

Any responses to this account, which is just one very brief Gnostic account of the world, amongst many others out there?

Happy to expand on any point.

I am curious...what historical record do you have to support this world view?

 

[danieldemol]

God is not all-powerful in this system so God cannot prevent Ptahil from creating the material world. God created Ptahil with a lot of power, but not more than God. Ptahil cannot create the material world on his own, which is why he needs the assistance of Ruha from the Darkworld (a separate world not created by God).

If there are worlds not created by God then why does the material realm need to be created by a God?

Science seems to suggest that the material universe unfolded as a consequence of the properties of material stuff rather than being formed by a God, so why not adopt a more scientific view of the formation of the material realm since you already acknowledge the possibility of realms or worlds existing independently of the great God?

In my opinion.

 

[Goldemar]

Okay, thanks for letting me know. Why don't the light forces attempt to wage war and free humans?

The only way that humans can be set free from the material world is by learning to free themselves from attachment to it, else they will be susceptible to being trapped again in it by Ptahil.
They are helped in this by certain Angelic beings, notably the Angel of gnosis, who help to awaken them to their true origins in the Lightworld and the way of return.

 

[Link]

The only way that humans can be set free from the material world is by learning to free themselves from attachment to it, else they will be susceptible to being trapped again in it by Ptahil.
They are helped in this by certain Angelic beings, notably the Angel of gnosis, who help to awaken them to their true origins in the Lightworld and the way of return.

I can think of another way. Fight and free all humans.

 

[Goldemar]

Hi! Welcome to the forum!

OK. Since you are being friendly enough for people to “pick holes” in it, I’ll have a go.

Two major problems right off the bat.
1. The fact that Ptahil has enough power to create a plane of existence against the wishes of the Great God, doesn’t just imply, it clearly dictates that either A. The Great God just ain’t that great, or B. The Great God secretly DID want a Dark World to be created.

2. You suggest that human spirits/souls undergo reincarnation, yet Ptahil, Ruha, and Krun were pretty lousy architects, because their “prison for human souls/spirits” constantly lets them out to be reincarnated.


Again, welcome aboard!

Thanks for the welcome!

To respond to your criticisms:
1. The Great God is Great because He is a powerful being possessing the power to create countless immortal souls/spirits and Angelic beings, but he is not by any means all-powerful.
Also, just to be clear, the material world, which is created, is distinct from the Darkworld, which has always existed.
2. Yup, Ptahil and Ruha could/can only work with the material in the Darkworld which is unstable and bound to break down over time. Moreover, some souls/spirits in the material world actively work for its dissolution. But most remain so attached to the material world that upon the deaths of 'their' current material (physical) bodies they are easily trapped again in the material world.

 

[Goldemar]

PS - if a god is not infinite (by definition, lower-case “g”), then he is just some kind of very powerful alien creature. And one must then ask, then who does this alien see as The One True and All-Powerful God (upper-case “G”)?
Or is it turtles all the way down?

Ptahil became so enamoured of his power in creating the material world that he over time forgot his origins and came to believe he is the sole God Who Alone all in the Lightworld and material world should worship.

 

[Goldemar]

I am curious...what historical record do you have to support this world view?

I'm not sure what you mean by historical record here - do you mean particular scriptures or sacred texts?

 

[Link]

Salam @Goldemar

Why don't the forces of light fight off the forces of evil and attempt to free all souls? Are they a minority?

 

[Goldemar]

If there are worlds not created by God then why does the material realm need to be created by a God?

Science seems to suggest that the material universe unfolded as a consequence of the properties of material stuff rather than being formed by a God, so why not adopt a more scientific view of the formation of the material realm since you already acknowledge the possibility of realms or worlds existing independently of the great God?

In my opinion.

To answer the first part of your question, Ptahil wished to create a world of his own populated by beings worshipping him. That is why he created the material world, against the Great God's Wishes.

As to the second part of your question, I guess my worldview feels right to me.

 

[Goldemar]

Salam @Goldemar

Why don't the forces of light fight off the forces of evil and attempt to free all souls? Are they a minority?

They are equally balanced by the forces of darkness.

 

[Link]

They are equally balanced by the forces of darkness.

So what is the path to be freed from this world? How can it happen if dark forces make sure to keep souls here?

 

[Link]

Freeing attachment to material world. Okay.

How can you overpower the dark forces and demiurge in this case? This is what I am asking.

It seems the only way to get a power greater then them, but will they let that happen and how if we are trapped by their power? And how so if the forces of light cannot even overpower them and free humans?

What chance does an individual have to escape. Sounds all good and rosy, free attachment to material world, but how does he overcome the Creator(s) of this world? Overpower them in which way if we do not have material attachment?

Do you know people who can over power them, if so can they break mountains in a blink of an eye? If not, how will they escape?

 

[Goldemar]

Yeah I figured this much. But interested to see why the light forces do not wage a war. One has to prevail, but cowering from fear even if you can fail, to me is not an option here.

Also, what is the source of "goodness", if both are said to be equal and finite? How do they know who is right?

Some souls will initially choose to worship the Great God in the Lightworld and strive to free themselves from attachment to the material world, others will choose to worship Ptahil and remain attached to the world, still others will choose to worship other beings and entities. But over time I believe all will learn to set themselves free and so return to the Lightworld whence we all originated. This is what the Angel of gnosis and other salvific beings teach to be the right way.

 

[Link]

Some souls will initially choose to worship the Great God in the Lightworld and strive to free themselves from attachment to the material world, others will choose to worship Ptahil and remain attached to the world, still others will choose to worship other beings and entities. But over time I believe all will learn to set themselves free and so return to the Lightworld whence we all originated. This is what the Angel of gnosis and other salvific beings teach to be the right way.

I'm asking the mechanism possible. So we do not attach to material world, how do we over power those controlling this world in this case?

Seems like we have to gain more power then forces of light since they cannot even free us. Since dark forces over power us now, how will we gain such power? They will not let us.

 

[Goldemar]

Freeing attachment to material world. Okay.

How can you overpower the dark forces and demiurge in this case? This is what I am asking.

It seems the only way to get a power greater then them, but will they let that happen and how if we are trapped by their power? And how so if the forces of light cannot even overpower them and free humans?

What chance does an individual have to escape. Sounds all good and rosy, free attachment to material world, but how does he overcome the Creator(s) of this world? Overpower them in which way if we do not have material attachment?

Do you know people who can over power them, if so can they break mountains in a blink of an eye? If not, how will they escape?

The forces of the Light and the forces of the Dark are in equal balance, one cannot prevail over the other. What keeps the soul in Ptahil's world is its attachment to that world and all its things and ways. Ptahil can be very seductive. But Ptahil holds no power over those who learn to free themselves from attachment to his world. This is easier said than done, which is why it often takes many lifetimes in Ptahil's world. But that is the path to salvation.

 

[Link]

The forces of the Light and the forces of the Dark are in equal balance, one cannot prevail over the other. What keeps the soul in Ptahil's world is its attachment to that world and all its things and ways. Ptahil can be very seductive. But Ptahil holds no power over those who learn to free themselves from attachment to his world. This is easier said than done, which is why it often takes many lifetimes in Ptahil's world. But that is the path to salvation.

Sorry, you are repeating. But you say mechanism we stay stuck to this world, is, attachment. So lets say you do not have attachment. How do you escape their control once having no attachment. If light forces can't free us now, and they are not attached, how will I gain that power to free myself from the demiurge if not attached? Seems the dark forces can over power me attached or not attached.

 

[Goldemar]

I'm asking the mechanism possible. So we do not attach to material world, how do we over power those controlling this world in this case?

Seems like we have to gain more power then forces of light since they cannot even free us. Since dark forces over power us now, how will we gain such power? They will not let us.

Freedom from attachment is sufficient to overcome the power that Ptahil has over humans in his world.

 

[Link]

Freedom from attachment is sufficient to overcome the power that Ptahil has over humans in his world.

How? If the light forces cannot free from me the dark forces because dark forces are equal power, how will detachment give me that much power? Can you explain the mechanism?