A Gnostic account of the world (in brief)

[Link]

I draw from Mandaean holy texts which can be considered revelation to the greatest of the Mandaean Prophets, Yuhana Masbana (John the Baptist, Yahya ibn Zakariya), but I go beyond them to develop my own ideas.

I am interested in reading these texts myself now.

 

[Goldemar]

It means whatever strength I gain to free myself, I will increase myself in it by a lot, and come back with a vengeance. The point is, this dualistic even power thing of good and evil does not make sense where we escape with enough power to overcome them, yet can't over take them later? Makes no sense.

But I don't think it works like that - I don't think you can increase yourself in freedom from attachment to the material world - once you've freed yourself from attachment to the material world, that is it. There is no more 'strength' to be gained. You free yourself, that is it, it's enough for you to travel on to the Lightworld, but not enough to come back with a vengeance like you suggest.

 

[Link]

But I don't think it works like that - I don't think you can increase yourself in freedom from attachment to the material world - once you've freed yourself from attachment to the material world, that is it. There is no more 'strength' to be gained. You free yourself, that is it, it's enough for you to travel on to the Lightworld, but not enough to come back with a vengeance like you suggest.

Why not? If enough power to escape from all of them which is going to take a whole lot of power and I ascend, and there is more power from non-attachment then attachment, why would I not gain enough to come back with a vengeance? If I gain all that at death from non-attachment, I would gain more over time and amplify power due to that as well, would I not?

 

[Goldemar]

I am interested in reading these texts myself now.

Great, that is all good. Just bear in mind that I don't limit myself to these texts but go beyond them to develop my own ideas.

 

[Goldemar]

Why not? If enough power to escape from all of them which is going to take a whole lot of power and I ascend, and there is more power from non-attachment then attachment, why would I not gain enough to come back with a vengeance? If I gain all that at death from non-attachment, I would gain more over time and amplify power due to that as well, would I not?

I'm afraid I don't think that's how it works. Once you're free, you're free and go on to the Lightworld, and that is the end of it for that soul. It's not some superpower that you can gain more of over time.

 

[Link]

I'm afraid I don't think that's how it works. Once you're free, you're free and go on to the Lightworld, and that is the end of it for that soul. It's not some superpower that you can gain more of over time.

How do you escape all the dark forces power over you? Non-attachment is not a mechanism. It would be by power. If it happens at death in some magical way due to non-attachment, there is no reason to assume you after overpowering to escape cannot come back with much more power.

 

[Goldemar]

How do you escape all the dark forces power over you? Non-attachment is not a mechanism. It would be by power. If it happens at death in some magical way due to non-attachment, there is no reason to assume you after overpowering to escape cannot come back with much more power.

I think we're both beginning to repeat ourselves on this so may have to agree to disagree.

 

[Link]

I think we're both beginning to repeat ourselves on this so may have to agree to disagree.

I'm thinking the best reply to this, is that without an absolute being, there is no path traveling to a destination of ascension nor emanation of light nor would things be created in truth with judgment of the absolute seer and judge, same argument against hard polytheism applies to your world scenario.

There would be no good or evil, just different paths leading to chaotic places with no meaning and just different views, can't say one is right or one is wrong.

If the absolute being exists, as obvious, he can make sure no being creates without his permission. Thus exalted ones who took rest created world by his permission while God does not need rest.

Another response, is that power emanates from God and God is Power and hence Power is Goodness. Evil is a weakness and acting in rebellion to God and his light is an act of coward to face your own evil or escape or overpower your faults and caprice. Evil is never through will power, its always through giving into deceptions and not overpowering foolishness with wisdom.

Wisdom is also a trait of higher power and hence acting wisely will make you powerful in the soul and you can break mountains, talk to dead, and travel the earth, if you perceive wisdom and reality, this is why Quran says "were any recitation (Quran means recitation) by which mountains can be broken or dead be spoken to or earth be travelled by (teleporting) it would be this (Quran)...."

Wisdom and goodness is true power. Evil is type of weakness and is deadness and opposite to life, it is negative in reality, away from life.

Thus God's army and forces are much stronger in power, then evil forces. In fact, no comparison in terms of power.

In case of no absolute being and say good and evil were possible without Him/Her/It (which its not per my view) and path of ascension was possible (which its not per my view), still evil would be weakness and good would be much higher in power in this case.

There would be no equation of the two forces, good would overwhelm the evil.

 

[Fool]

PS - if a god is not infinite (by definition, lower-case “g”), then he is just some kind of very powerful alien creature. And one must then ask, then who does this alien see as The One True and All-Powerful God (upper-case “G”)?
Or is it turtles all the way down?

That which is infinite can only be so within itself. Otherwise, there is contrast to some otherness. If there is contrast then it is finite to the otherness that defines, delimits it.

 

[Goldemar]

I'm thinking the best reply to this, is that without an absolute being, there is no path traveling to a destination of ascension nor emanation of light nor would things be created in truth with judgment of the absolute seer and judge, same argument against hard polytheism applies to your world scenario.

There would be no good or evil, just different paths leading to chaotic places with no meaning and just different views, can't say one is right or one is wrong.

If the absolute being exists, as obvious, he can make sure no being creates without his permission. Thus exalted ones who took rest created world by his permission while God does not need rest.

Another response, is that power emanates from God and God is Power and hence Power is Goodness. Evil is a weakness and acting in rebellion to God and his light is an act of coward to face your own evil or escape or overpower your faults and caprice. Evil is never through will power, its always through giving into deceptions and not overpowering foolishness with wisdom.

Wisdom is also a trait of higher power and hence acting wisely will make you powerful in the soul and you can break mountains, talk to dead, and travel the earth, if you perceive wisdom and reality, this is why Quran says "were any recitation (Quran means recitation) by which mountains can be broken or dead be spoken to or earth be travelled by (teleporting) it would be this (Quran)...."

Wisdom and goodness is true power. Evil is type of weakness and is deadness and opposite to life, it is negative in reality, away from life.

Thus God's army and forces are much stronger in power, then evil forces. In fact, no comparison in terms of power.

In case of no absolute being and say good and evil were possible without Him/Her/It (which its not per my view) and path of ascension was possible (which its not per my view), still evil would be weakness and good would be much higher in power in this case.

There would be no equation of the two forces, good would overwhelm the evil.

In my worldview, in the Lightworld whence we originated, we are free. In the material world we are trapped as in a prison and not free. And there is no path for us to the Darkworld. So there are two options. To remain trapped in the material world or to find the path to freedom (return to the Lightworld). I believe that all souls, ultimately, yearn for the freedom they once had, in the Lightworld, without which they will never be at peace. So the choice is between freedom, which brings peace, and bondage, which doesn't.

 

[wizanda]

I believe that all souls, ultimately, yearn for the freedom they once had, in the Lightworld, without which they will never be at peace.

In many near death experiences, including my own, I witnessed Heaven is light, and a place of complete Oneness.

What got me is God's Oneness could be found throughout, where I shouted from Hell's darkness I know Oneness, and God came found me because of the light that emitted.

We all seek Oneness; where it is possible to openly share between us, and thus we can feel a similitude of Heaven.

In my opinion.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

I'm not sure what you mean by historical record here - do you mean particular scriptures or sacred texts?

A belief needs supporting evidence...typically something of historical value.

for example, Christianity owes its beliefs to an array of internal written evidence, archeological artefacts, and external written evidence from sources outside the religion.

What evidence of historical value supports your view?

 

[Goldemar]

A belief needs supporting evidence...typically something of historical value.

for example, Christianity owes its beliefs to an array of internal written evidence, archeological artefacts, and external written evidence from sources outside the religion.

What evidence of historical value supports your view?

So I draw on the sources on the beliefs and practices of the Cainites mentioned in the Wikipedia article on them and on Mandaean scriptures which you can find links to from the Wikipedia page on them. But my beliefs and practices are nevertheless very much my own. I believe one can develop one's own beliefs and practices through personal gnosis/insight that isn't necessarily grounded in the kinds of artefacts of historic value you seem to be interested in.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

So I draw on the sources on the beliefs and practices of the Cainites mentioned in the Wikipedia article on them and on Mandaean scriptures which you can find links to from the Wikipedia page on them. But my beliefs and practices are nevertheless very much my own. I believe one can develop one's own beliefs and practices through personal gnosis/insight that isn't necessarily grounded in the kinds of artefacts of historic value you seem to be interested in.

What credibility can one assign to such beliefs when they are unsupported by high quality and considerable historical evidence?

Christianity has a huge amount of history...it is very difficult to deny it's claims when that evidence is tested.
Even non Christians such as scholar Bart Erhman attest to the existence of new testament authors and writings about Jesus. It is absolutely clear historically, Jesus really existed...along with the apostles.
When we consider the consistency of the rest of the Bible record and it's doctrines over a span of thousands of years...that forms the basis for a very solid foundation for belief.

 

[Goldemar]

What credibility can one assign to such beliefs when they are unsupported by high quality and considerable historical evidence?

Christianity has a huge amount of history...it is very difficult to deny it's claims when that evidence is tested.
Even non Christians such as scholar Bart Erhman attest to the existence of new testament authors and writings about Jesus. It is absolutely clear historically, Jesus really existed...along with the apostles.
When we consider the consistency of the rest of the Bible record and it's doctrines over a span of thousands of years...that forms the basis for a very solid foundation for belief.

Which claims of Christianity are you referring to?