RedDragon94
Love everyone, meditate often
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A Good Bible Debate (That May Answer a Few of Your Questions).
- Thread starter RedDragon94
- Start date
RedDragon94
Love everyone, meditate often
What else do you have to do all night?
RedDragon94
Love everyone, meditate often
Well, the Trinitarians seem to have an edge.
Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
Don't have time or care to watch the video. Having said that, as someone from the outside looking in, I think that Trinitarianism makes no biblical sense. In John 14, Jesus allegedly said something to the effect of "Trust in God, Trust also in me" clearly differentiating between himself and God. Seems to me from this that Jesus believed "God" was a distinct entity separate from himself.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
The problem is when most people use the word "God" they are realyy talking about the Heavenly Father. The "father" and "son" together make up what is actually the one God. So God is like a family. There can be one familly with several members and there is only one God but consisting of more than one member. Trinitarians add a third member they call the Holy Spirit but that is not really a third member of the family, it is the power and force of the Father.
I don't know the terminology of the Trinity, but I know its based in philosophy and is not an attempt to undermine God or divide God into parts. If it doesn't interest you then don't spend time on it, because a partial understanding of the terminology and reasoning is a waste of time. People who have studied it think its great. Trinity (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
I personally have no trouble accepting the Trinity as a single representation of three critically important attributes of God.
Mind - the faculty of consciousness and thought. God the Father
Body - Physical manifestations of the mind. God the Son, begotten of the Father
Spirit - nonphysical manifestations of the mind, the seat of emotions and character; the soul...God the Holy Spirit.
If God did not speak, nothing would exist. The apostle John tells us that Jesus is the Word of God. The word is a physical manifestation and representation of the mind which generated it. Once spoken, words take on physical form, and are capable of directing causal relationships.
Throughout the Bible, especially in Genesis where this is most apparent, every time God speaks, His will is accomplished through his Word. He speaks, it is accomplished. And it is all done according to his character, according to His Spirit, which is capable of movement. Where there is movement there is power.
The Trinity makes perfect sense to me...One God.
Mind - the faculty of consciousness and thought. God the Father
Body - Physical manifestations of the mind. God the Son, begotten of the Father
Spirit - nonphysical manifestations of the mind, the seat of emotions and character; the soul...God the Holy Spirit.
If God did not speak, nothing would exist. The apostle John tells us that Jesus is the Word of God. The word is a physical manifestation and representation of the mind which generated it. Once spoken, words take on physical form, and are capable of directing causal relationships.
Throughout the Bible, especially in Genesis where this is most apparent, every time God speaks, His will is accomplished through his Word. He speaks, it is accomplished. And it is all done according to his character, according to His Spirit, which is capable of movement. Where there is movement there is power.
The Trinity makes perfect sense to me...One God.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
You could also say He was saying He was equal to God! How could a mere man say, "you trust God, trust me the same way"?
Hello. Watch out for terms like "nature" and "essence"!
Acclaimed scholar and Roman Catholic priest (i.e., a trinitarian,) John L. McKenzie, in his Dictionary of the Bible, New York, 1965p. 899, wrote: "The trinity of God is defined by the church as the belief that in God are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly and formally a biblical belief. The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of 'person' and 'nature' which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as 'essence' and 'substance' were erroneously applied to God by some theologians."
An honest scholar! I would have liked to have met him. I hope to, someday!
Google his name and John 1:1, fascinating!
rharris001
New Member
Any claiming to follow Christ and worship God should NOT care about debates among men or what any religious organization has to say about the matter. They SHOULD be concerned about what The Most High and His only authorized spokesman - Christ - has to say about a matter.
When it comes to matters of "Trinity" or their being three gods in one, then what God says is all their need to be said. No debates needed. God says at Exodus 33:20: "But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"
Jesus said at John 1:18, "No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."
People in past times have seen Jesus, so he cannot be God. Plus, no one can see God and and live. Again, people have seen Jesus.
Additionally, the Apostle Paul makes it clear at 1 Cor 8:6 that there is ONLY one God (The Father) and one Lord (Jesus Christ). "Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord (over mankind), Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."
It is sad that it is men - not God and His son - that so many consult.
Christianity is an impostor that looks like a lamb (Christlike) but speaks like a dragon (it lies). It has arisen on the basis of Christs name, TRUTHFULLY acknowledging that "he is the Christ" (this is their hook) but has deceived many. (Matt 24:4-5; Rev 13:11)
It is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
When it comes to matters of "Trinity" or their being three gods in one, then what God says is all their need to be said. No debates needed. God says at Exodus 33:20: "But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"
Jesus said at John 1:18, "No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."
People in past times have seen Jesus, so he cannot be God. Plus, no one can see God and and live. Again, people have seen Jesus.
Additionally, the Apostle Paul makes it clear at 1 Cor 8:6 that there is ONLY one God (The Father) and one Lord (Jesus Christ). "Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord (over mankind), Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."
It is sad that it is men - not God and His son - that so many consult.
Christianity is an impostor that looks like a lamb (Christlike) but speaks like a dragon (it lies). It has arisen on the basis of Christs name, TRUTHFULLY acknowledging that "he is the Christ" (this is their hook) but has deceived many. (Matt 24:4-5; Rev 13:11)
It is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
RedDragon94
Love everyone, meditate often
You trust your pastor to give you all the answers. That's blind faith in a mere man.
RedDragon94
Love everyone, meditate often
Mind if I ask what you believe? I basically agree.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Again, when most people use the word "God" they are talking about "the Father". No man has seen God ( the Father ) but people could see Jesus in his human form. Together the two of them make up the one and only "God".
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Lol, how do you know me? I do that because you say so, or.....?
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
It's a shame when people who don't understand the Trinity try to explain it away, they end up looking foolish!
That's correct, no human can see God and live. Jesus was 'flesh', that's how He was able to be seen by humans!
Lol! You quote John 1:18 from the NIV and then say Jesus isn't God.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. All sons of all entities are of the same substance, the same nature, the same species as their father. If Jesus is begotten of the Father, then Jesus is a God. If there can be only one God, Jesus is God.
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
And Jesus said, "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."
There is no doubt that Jesus is God. The only person who could suggest otherwise is someone who does not believe the Bible, and if a person does not believe the Bible, they do not know Christ, and if they do not know Christ... well, you can take it from there.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Problem is, many people believe different interpretations of what the Bible says. It is very possible for two different people to say they believe the Bible and yet believe teo different things,
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Here is a good example. Catholics believe the Bible says the church is founded on Peter. Non-catholics believe the Bible teaches that Jesus is the "rock' that the church is founded on. Both believe they are following the Bible and yet have completely different ideas about what it says.
djhwoodwerks,
There is an infinite difference between a god and ab Almighty God!!! Anyone who reads the Bible with a modicum of understanding knows that the Bible says that Jesus qualifies as a god, but he is not his Father. If you have a concordance lookup Isaiah 9:6,7. Jesus, the Christ is the one spoken about here. Notice in verse 6, Jesus is called a Mighty God, which in Hebrew is El Gabbohr, but Jehovah, his Father is The Almighty God, in Hebrew El Shaddai. You could have ten billion Mighty god's and they would be nothing compared with the power of The Almighty!!! Consider how this is written in Psalms 86:8-10, 89:5-7, 95:3, 96:4,5, 97:7,9.
Jesus said that the Father is his Father and our Father, his God and our God, John 20:17. Also Revelation 3:12.
Jesus said that the Father is GREATER than he is, John 14:28.
Jesus said that he lives because of the Father, John 6:57.
The Bible tells us that Jesus was the first of God's creations, Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14.
The Bible says that Jesus belongs to God, 1Corinthians 3:23, and that God is Jesus' head, 1Corinthians 11:3.
Did you know that God hates deception, Psalms 5:6, Proverbs 3:32. Who was talking from heaven when Jesus was baptized??? Matthew 3:17, 1Peter 2:22. Who spoke during Jesus' transfiguration, Mark 9:7. God hates deception, it was God!!!
This concept makes it impossible that Jesus is the same person as God. Jesus comes in before the throne of God while God is on the throne, Daniel 7:13,14, Revelation 5:5,7,8.
God knows things and controls things that Jesus has no power to know or do, Matthew 20:23, 24;36.
I could go on and on, but these Scriptures should suffice, that is to any Christian!!!