A ground-zero position when talking about the Bible

[David Young]

Post # 140: In other words, occultism.

 

[2ndpillar]

I worked with the guy. I don't have to question his motives because he told some of us.

Yeah, that sounds good, but believing a bank robber is not always the best option. If you ask his jail mate, why he killed his girlfriend, he will probably say he was framed, or that she deserved it. Both answers should be suspect. The problem with a lot of the rebellious youths is that they get their tattoos, piercings, pink hair, and often wind up falling for the bad characters, and eventually wind up living on the dole, with rotting teeth, being beat up by their chosen partners. That is not always the case, but it happens often enough to see a pattern. Generally, if they live long enough, they might escape believing everything they are told, and living in the consequence. If you were a true misanthrope, as you claim, you would question everything. If he simply had not stolen that cookie, and then broken the neighbors window out of spite, or been shown the consequences early, he might not have turned into a bank robber. Big crime starts with small crime. And believing a convicted felon, is probably not on the list of things one should do lightly. With Progressive prosecutors putting them on the street, you may have to live with them, but that doesn't mean that the sweetness coming from their mouths is not more on par with Sweet and Low, which causes cancer.

 

[sojourner]

First thanks for the reply, it's not a matter of canon of sacred writings, nor any translation, but this, John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
and in guiding us in all truth, he will teach us. 1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." 1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
understand the word of God is not INK and PAPER, just to read, no, it's in our hearts the revelation of Jesus the christ. no paper/canon/ink, or translation can hold the KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING of God.... LISTEN TO ME.... years ago, and I mean many years ago, the Holy Spirit revealed the meaning to me of this scripture, which is one of the keys to my understanding of God. 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
when one study God word, it is not to LEARN GOD .... no, studying, as the scripture states shows God that you're INTRESTED in him, for only God can reveal himself to us, and it's not through our studying his word, but his REVELATION of HIMSELF in our studying of him. yes, I burned the midnight oil, and meditated day and NIGHT, yes, at night too, but education alone will not reveal God, this is why we need the "COMFORTER", for he will Guide us in what we are reading, not my interpretation nor yours or anyone's else, but only his. see, education is Good, get it if one can, but just don't put your education ahead of God. there is nothing wrong with education, it's what's one do with it. now, in God's teaching, all "context" of scriptures are clarified. so with his lead... one will never go wrong. I trust God fully. he reveals to me something new Just about every day, and it can be about a scripture that I may have read many of times. so for me there is no hard or unanswered question I have any more concering His Holy Word. now STOP, do I know everything about God? no, I will not tell that lie. but what I do know that I will speak and speak only, I will share with my brothers and sisters in hope something may be revealed unto them.
now, even though I might use the (kjv) of the bible exclusively, (which the Comforter have given me inside information on what to look for). I do look at other translation for either confirmation, or total rejection of them, as well as other book and writings. and let me say this, not all books in a connon is of God. and one more thing, listen closly. now hear me out, "Not everything, let me say this again, not everything spoken in the bible is a TRUTH, but everything in the bible is truly stated..... did you understand what i just said? ..... this is why the proverb is written, Proverbs 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."
the Lord Jesus said, John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." did you get that revelation irself? .... (smile), if not read John 5:39 again.
see this verse alone eliminates what you asked about, "Because there are many more sacred texts than the 66 you probably ascribe to.", just read John 5:39 again, and ask the Holy Spirit, the COMFORTER for the Revelation.
be Blessed,
PICJAG, 101G.

You still took everything out of context. context is important to the exegetical process, whereby we determine what a text is actually saying. Otherwise one can make any disparate text say virtually anything one wants. Which is what you’re doing here. The exegetical process has nothing to do with “the movement of Holy Spirit.”

The church has been given divine authority to determine which texts are inspired and which are not.

 

[101G]

You still took everything out of context. context is important to the exegetical process, whereby we determine what a text is actually saying. Otherwise one can make any disparate text say virtually anything one wants. Which is what you’re doing here. The exegetical process has nothing to do with “the movement of Holy Spirit.”

The church has been given divine authority to determine which texts are inspired and which are not.

first thanks for the reply, second, yes, the "CHURCH", not a Chursh, and is everyone who call themselves a part of the, as in "THE CHURCH" on one accord?. as we see today with the exegetical process, people are still in ERROR. so that excuse want fly. as said one need the the originator of his own word, God almighty the Holy Spirit who will teach us. other wise one can get all the exegetical process they want and still be in an Eisegesis mess without the Holy Spirit. for it is evident, just look or count the different exegetical process of religions, a. movements, and or b. beliefs, all as they say are from ... a exegetical process, are they?. so that excuse, "The exegetical process has nothing to do with “the movement of Holy Spirit.”, is flawed and just an excuse for not knowing the truth, sure go ahead, get your process without the Holy Spirit and see what happens.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[sojourner]

one need the the originator of his own word, God almighty the Holy Spirit who will teach us. other wise one can get all the exegetical process they want and still be in an Eisegesis mess without the Holy Spirit

The exegetical process isn’t meant to be a perfect process, so impressing that standard upon it in order to discount it is a fallacious argument. However, a solid exegesis is the best we have. (BTW: the HS is not part of that process. It is of no use in understanding what ancient, foreign texts actually say. Nor is the establishment of textual fact part of the work of the HS.)

just look or count the different exegetical process of religions, a. movements, and or b. beliefs, all as they say are from ... a exegetical process, are they?

There are no differences in exegetical work. All scholars follow the same scholastic process and end up with differing interpretations. That’s because the texts they exegete are multivalent. It’s only natural that different valid interpretations be arrived at by different people.

"The exegetical process has nothing to do with “the movement of Holy Spirit.”, is flawed

Nope; not “flawed,” just not part of the process. Exegesis doesn’t provide surety. It provides clarity.

 

[101G]

The exegetical process isn’t meant to be a perfect process,

BINGO, but God is PERFECT, meaning his word is PERFECT. and again I say allow the Holy Spirit to Guide you in all truth.

so impressing that standard upon it in order to discount it is a fallacious argument. However, a solid exegesis is the best we have. (BTW: the HS is not part of that process. It is of no use in understanding what ancient, foreign texts actually say. Nor is the establishment of textual fact part of the work of the HS.)

I disagree.
]PICJAG, 101G.

 

[sojourner]

BINGO, but God is PERFECT, meaning his word is PERFECT. and again I say allow the Holy Spirit to Guide you in all truth.

God’s Word is not perfectly reflected in the Biblical texts. Conflating “Word” and “words” isn’t real helpful here. In fact, it’s obstructive.

I disagree

I’m sorry you feel that way.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The problem with a lot of the rebellious youths is that they get their tattoos, piercings, pink hair, and often wind up falling for the bad characters, and

Except that's not the case. At all. I have all three of those, except I have green in my hair instead of pink, and I've worked with kids.

If you were a true misanthrope, as you claim, you would question everything.

That's called being a hard skeptic.

And believing a convicted felon, is probably not on the list of things one should do lightly.

His mom was actually sick. This happened in small town where just everybody knows damn near everybody.
And it's perplexing you believe a little kid taking a cookie out of the cookie jar is a budding criminal. It is astounding to think people can make such drastic and extreme jumps when drawing conclusions. But, then again, you do seem to judge a book by it's cover.
There is an interesting story of a priest who deeply shamed his congregation because they judged his appearance. Which was he presented himself as a homeless man. The congregation didn't treat him well. He then revealed himself to be the new priest.
You may learn a few things from that story. Or the story of Christians being offended by a homeless Jesus sleeping on a bench in front of the church.

 

[101G]

God’s Word is not perfectly reflected in the Biblical texts. Conflating “Word” and “words” isn’t real helpful here. In fact, it’s obstructive.

GINOLJC, to all,
First, thanks for the reply, second you confirmed what I said, if "God’s Word is not perfectly reflected", it's because you have not the Spirit as a teacher, meaning your eyes are blind to the truth. you phrased that statement correctly. (a hidden reason), for the word of God is hidden to NATURAL FLESHLY EYES. just like in your NRSV, fleshly eyes trying to see Spiritual TRUTHS. for the proverb is correct. Proverbs 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." so your little hidden message confirm what I been saying, you have to have the Holy Ghost to SEE Spiritual things. which prove this proverb true, Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him." THIS IS TRUE.

↑
I disagree
I’m sorry you feel that way.

DON'T BE SORRY, be glad, praise the Lord in and out of seasons. and don't feel either.... KNOW ... the Word of God.
be blessed in the Lord.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[sojourner]

you confirmed what I said, if "God’s Word is not perfectly reflected", it's because you have not the Spirit as a teacher, meaning your eyes are blind to the truth. you phrased that statement correctly

God’s Word is not perfectly reflected, because the Bible is authored by human beings who “see dimly” and write through the filters of their own culture and understanding.

It’s clear where you’re coming from in these posts and it’s not from a place of fact and reason.

I think you’ve stuck your foot in your mouth enough.

 

[2ndpillar]

Except that's not the case. At all. I have all three of those, except I have green in my hair instead of pink, and I've worked with kids.

That's called being a hard skeptic.

His mom was actually sick. This happened in small town where just everybody knows damn near everybody.
And it's perplexing you believe a little kid taking a cookie out of the cookie jar is a budding criminal. It is astounding to think people can make such drastic and extreme jumps when drawing conclusions. But, then again, you do seem to judge a book by it's cover.
There is an interesting story of a priest who deeply shamed his congregation because they judged his appearance. Which was he presented himself as a homeless man. The congregation didn't treat him well. He then revealed himself to be the new priest.
You may learn a few things from that story. Or the story of Christians being offended by a homeless Jesus sleeping on a bench in front of the church.

The path to "destruction" starts by stealing a cookie, not by robbing a bank. My niece rebelled and had sex with a bad character, against the wishes of her parents, and wound up having 2 kids. My brother is now caretaker of the kids, the niece's boyfriend just broke my niece's leg in 17 places, yet she still lives with this convicted felon, and uses drugs, and lives in a house without heat, for she spends too much of her government stipend on drugs. I just spoke to my brother, and he expects her to lose all of her teeth and die sooner than later. She had a job, but it was putting makeup on old people in an old people's home, and on the dead in a funeral home, something that people want, but not something I would hope to do. One should choose the people they attach themselves too and believe in. Oh, yeah, the rebellious daughter of my nephew dyes her hair green. Apparently, pink is too conservative. She is also super woke, and her boyfriend was apparently thrown out of college for cause. Not much difference between the woke and the criminals they support. When the "woke", the Progressives early release a criminal into the community, they are in my view, partially responsible for the crimes that person now commits. The green hair is just a signal of rebellion. Supporting the criminals, saying they had justifiable cause, because they say so, goes a step further. The path to hell starts with a single step.

 

[sojourner]

GINOLJC, to all.

Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him." Psalms 12:6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times." Psalms 119:140 "Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it."
these words of God will be nothing to the hearer unless they are taught by the Holy Spirit, God himself. We have an anointing, scripture, 1 John 2:20 "But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things." and the reason, 1 John 2:26 "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you." 1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
]if one is in JESUS, the Christ, he is taught of God.... "ALL THINGS. 1 Corinthians 2:12 "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God." 1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." 1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." 1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

so the bottom line, read the bible with our TEACHER, the Holy Spirit, and EVERY WORD IN THE BIBLE IS ALL ONE NEED. for the Holy Spirit will Give Revelation to every scripture. in the bible.
hope that help.
PICJAG, 101G.

However, this doesn’t address the question of one, cohesive message. In fact, there is no one cohesive message. The texts are too disparate in authorship, culture, time span, intended audience, purpose, and genre. Each text carries its own message.