A heathan view of the afterlife

[Antibush5]

http://www.angelfire.com/nm/seidhman/gravemound.pdfI've been trying to find a historically accurate view of the Asatru afterlife, I was hoping that somebody could give this a look and tell me what they think? Other links would be appriciated and any other information would be good too

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

That sounds accurate from what I've seen on more conservative (lore-wise) Asatru sites.

 

[Antibush5]

If I might summerise what I have read into this. </p>Asatru, basically had no individuel spiritual basis, it was entirely communally centered and had a great deal of ancestor worship. Then you went on to ethier Hel, Valhalla or Ran's Hall. So if you were cursed to be healthy and live a generally peaceful life, you got cursed with eternal bleakness until Ragnorak comes about, where you HAVE to fight with Loki. It all sounds so depressing, I now know this is not a religion for me.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Depressing? You must be joking. Didn't the Aztecs sacrifice Humans? If you die a dishonourable Death (i.e. you die a coward, thief, murderer) then you go to Hel's Hall, and endure torment until Ragnarok, where you fight on Loki's side against the Gods. If you die at sea, (i.e. drowning in a ship) then you go to Ran's Hall, which is a great place, second to Valhall. If you die Honourably, then you go to Valhall, where there is feasting and war training for Ragnarok. You have a battle everyday, and are revived after it is over, and then you feast. It is the ideal place to be. You may also go to Freyja's Hall, depending on whether or not she picks you. If you die a normal, rather uneventful death, you go to Nifelheim, the land of the Dead. There you wait until Ragnarok, in the so-called bleakness, where you can still fight against Loki and Hel. There is no "Ancestor Worship". It is ancestor honouring. You hold your ancestors in High Esteem. I'm guessing the article isn't very accurate, if you have only found that on your link. I tried the link, but it never worked, so I'm not sure if it really is accurate or not.

 

[Antibush5]

Depressing? You must be joking. Didn't the Aztecs sacrifice Humans? If you die a dishonourable Death (i.e. you die a coward, thief, murderer) then you go to Hel's Hall, and endure torment until Ragnarok, where you fight on Loki's side against the Gods. If you die at sea, (i.e. drowning in a ship) then you go to Ran's Hall, which is a great place, second to Valhall. If you die Honourably, then you go to Valhall, where there is feasting and war training for Ragnarok. You have a battle everyday, and are revived after it is over, and then you feast. It is the ideal place to be. You may also go to Freyja's Hall, depending on whether or not she picks you. If you die a normal, rather uneventful death, you go to Nifelheim, the land of the Dead. There you wait until Ragnarok, in the so-called bleakness, where you can still fight against Loki and Hel. There is no &quot;Ancestor Worship&quot;. It is ancestor honouring. You hold your ancestors in High Esteem. I'm guessing the article isn't very accurate, if you have only found that on your link. I tried the link, but it never worked, so I'm not sure if it really is accurate or not.

Nothing bleak about human sacrafice But I've tried to find something about going to Nifelheim but from my research, you basically go to a realm of Hel (is Nifelheim a realm in Hel?). Sorry about the ancestor thing, that was really a poor choice of words. You can find the link, by googling Norse Afterlife, its the 5th result. I do think it is a bit warrior centric, which is good in some ways, promoting a sense of the importance of honour and such, but kind of takes it away from the common man.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Nothing bleak about human sacrafice But I've tried to find something about going to Nifelheim but from my research, you basically go to a realm of Hel (is Nifelheim a realm in Hel?). Sorry about the ancestor thing, that was really a poor choice of words. You can find the link, by googling Norse Afterlife, its the 5th result. I do think it is a bit warrior centric, which is good in some ways, promoting a sense of the importance of honour and such, but kind of takes it away from the common man.

Nifelheim is the World of the Dead, one of the Nine Worlds. Hel is a Goddess, and her realm is often called by the same name. Hel's realm is in Nifelheim, and Hel's realm is were the dishonourable go when they die. It is very warrior centric, however, in the days where it was popular the "common man" was also a Warrior. Village men went to War, period. In modern Asatru, it is not as Warrior centric, however you still be an honourable person. The Common Man is more of an addition to Asatru, because now there are men who do not have to go to war.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Also, on that link, it says that the individual can go to their Patron God's or Goddess' Hall, which isn't as depressing as you thought

The link seems to be outdated, because it sites the Asatru Free Assembly, which is no longer an organization.

 

[Antibush5]

Also, on that link, it says that the individual can go to their Patron God's or Goddess' Hall, which isn't as depressing as you thought

The link seems to be outdated, because it sites the Asatru Free Assembly, which is no longer an organization.

It says that, the idea was made up, it then goes into great detail about it, hell, halfway through, it actually picks the subject back up again, saying how establishing a &quot;personal relationship&quot; with a god would be classed as selfish. I also looked into Niflheim, thanks for clarifying.
Also it couldn't have been made that long ago, only 1 or 2 years ago, its just the person who wrote it, has been in Asatru for years.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

It says that, the idea was made up, it then goes into great detail about it, hell, halfway through, it actually picks the subject back up again, saying how establishing a &quot;personal relationship&quot; with a god would be classed as selfish. I also looked into Niflheim, thanks for clarifying.
Also it couldn't have been made that long ago, only 1 or 2 years ago, its just the person who wrote it, has been in Asatru for years.

Well I only know that AFA isn't around any more. I am aware that the idea was made up, and to be honest, (for the people who accept it), it had to be. There are few resources for the religion itself, so there has to be some adaptations of it.

And you should have personal relationships with all the Gods, however you always have a patron, depending on the type of person you are. For example, a warrior would oftentimes have Thor or Tyr as their patron, because they look for victory in their battles, and they are most like those gods. A wiseman might have Odin as his patron, because Odin is the God of Wisdom. It depends on the individual. For lack of a better analogy, it is somewhat like saints. There is a patron saint for everything. So it is similar in that each person would have a patron God or Goddess. It isn't selfish, as many families and Kindreds had patrons. There are less common Gods who were worshiped by families and communities, other than the Aesir and Vanir.

 

[Antibush5]

Well I only know that AFA isn't around any more. I am aware that the idea was made up, and to be honest, (for the people who accept it), it had to be. There are few resources for the religion itself, so there has to be some adaptations of it.

And you should have personal relationships with all the Gods, however you always have a patron, depending on the type of person you are. For example, a warrior would oftentimes have Thor or Tyr as their patron, because they look for victory in their battles, and they are most like those gods. A wiseman might have Odin as his patron, because Odin is the God of Wisdom. It depends on the individual. For lack of a better analogy, it is somewhat like saints. There is a patron saint for everything. So it is similar in that each person would have a patron God or Goddess. It isn't selfish, as many families and Kindreds had patrons. There are less common Gods who were worshiped by families and communities, other than the Aesir and Vanir.

Maybe you are right, I've just been looking into Asatru lately. Could you suggest any sites that might give some credibal information? (I've maybe been interested in praising a few gods, hell, I even gave a bit of beer to Thor, in hopes that he might hold back the rain for a few days)

 

[Breathe]

There are less common Gods who were worshiped by families and communities, other than the Aesir and Vanir.

Could you elaborate more on this please?

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Maybe you are right, I've just been looking into Asatru lately. Could you suggest any sites that might give some credibal information? (I've maybe been interested in praising a few gods, hell, I even gave a bit of beer to Thor, in hopes that he might hold back the rain for a few days)

If it's community with conservative-leaning views on lore, then try Asatru Lore.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Maybe you are right, I've just been looking into Asatru lately. Could you suggest any sites that might give some credibal information? (I've maybe been interested in praising a few gods, hell, I even gave a bit of beer to Thor, in hopes that he might hold back the rain for a few days)

For some "less conservative" views, (I'm not really sure how conservative they are), you could try Asatru Alliance | Homepage , which is the Asatru Alliance website. Another site I go to is not "technically" Asatru, but it is certainly similar and deals with the Anglo-Saxon versions of the Gods (i.e. Woden instead of Odin, Thunor instead of Thor, etc.) is Þæs Geferræden Fyrnsida

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Could you elaborate more on this please?

I wish I could elaborate extensively, and possibly give you specific examples, but I can't. Due to the fact that it was only within certain families and the lack of resources. I do know however, that the family would have a patron God or Goddess, and it would sometimes be a "Lesser God", or even a deity that is only known to the specific family. There are many, many Gods and Goddesses, and the only ones that people usually hear about are Odin, Thor, Freyr, Freyja, etc. However, there are other Gods and Spirits.Sometimes a family would have a land or water spirit as their Patron, but would still obviously worship and revere the other Gods and Goddesses.

I'm not sure if that really cleared much up for you though. I'm just saying that there were sometimes less-known Gods that a certain family would have as their Patron.

 

[Breathe]

I understand what you are saying.


If some of those did not have one of the more common gods as their patron, would they go to that lesser god's home (going by the belief in you go to your patron's home)?

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

I understand what you are saying.


If some of those did not have one of the more common gods as their patron, would they go to that lesser god's home (going by the belief in you go to your patron's home)?

To be honest, I have no idea. I had never even heard of that belief until I looked at that article. To me, it doesn't make much sense, because some of the "lesser gods" are more like land or water spirits than Gods with Halls, so in some cases there may not be a home to go to after death, if you understand what I am saying. For me, to get to either Valhall, Ran's Hall, or Freyja's Hall, you simply need to live honourably, and to follow the Nine Noble Virtues. Also, rather than being a typical Germanic "Warrior", you need to be a warrior for the faith. As in being an active community member, establishing a Kindred possibly, and trying to establish the faith more than it is currently. Right now, there are not many members of Asatru, and we want to see more people join, not through evangelism or coercion, as some religions employ, but just by making an impression and presenting ourselves to the public so that more people can be exposed to it. I truly believe that a large reason that many people don't follow it is because they simply have little or no knowledge of it.


So anyways, I think that regardless of your Patron, where you go depends on where you live. You would go to Hel's Hall if you were a criminal or dishonourable, you would go simply to Nifelheim if you lived a basic life and did nothing active, yet you didn't live necessarily dishonourably, and you would go to either Valhall, Freyja's Hall or Ran's Hall if you lived honourably, and were an active Asatru member.

 

[Breathe]

To be honest, I have no idea. I had never even heard of that belief until I looked at that article. To me, it doesn't make much sense, because some of the "lesser gods" are more like land or water spirits than Gods with Halls, so in some cases there may not be a home to go to after death, if you understand what I am saying.

Absolutely understand.

For me, to get to either Valhall, Ran's Hall, or Freyja's Hall, you simply need to live honourably, and to follow the Nine Noble Virtues. Also, rather than being a typical Germanic "Warrior", you need to be a warrior for the faith.

That's pretty much how I understand it myself actually. I consider the "being a warrior" as sort of "doing one's dharma" to use a Hindu term. Doing what is right, doing their duties, and so on.

I actually try to follow the Nine Noble virtues, by the way. I'm such a syncretist.

and you would go to either Valhall, Freyja's Hall or Ran's Hall if you lived honourably, and were an active Asatru member.

Would one pick how to go to Valhall, Freyja's Hall, or Ran's Hall? Or is it picked for us? And on what grounds are they where one goes to, if the latter? I don't know the details of Ran's hall too much, nor Freyja's. I'd be open to learning though.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Would one pick how to go to Valhall, Freyja's Hall, or Ran's Hall? Or is it picked for us? And on what grounds are they where one goes to, if the latter? I don't know the details of Ran's hall too much, nor Freyja's. I'd be open to learning though.

Valhall is the standard place to go. If you die honourably, you go straight to Valhall, unless Freyja picks you personally. If you are personally picked by her, you go to her Hall. She has many warriors in her Hall who will join the others from Valhall and Aegir's Hall (I was incorrectly referring to it as Ran's Hall. Ran is Aegir's wife, sorry). Aegir is the God of the Sea, so the only way for you to go to him is if you die at sea. You have to live an honourable life of course though :yes:

I have also heard that if a Viking ship was in danger of sinking, the Shipmaster would hand out coins to all the men, with the same kind of concept of giving the dead Greeks a coin for the journey across the Styx. The coins were to be given to Ran, Aegir's wife, and you would gain her favour that way. She wouldn't treat you badly if you didn't give her a coin, but she would treat you extra special if you did

Another interesting fact about the burial and funeral customs is that before the funeral, the person would have his or her fingernails and toenails clipped. This was to prevent the ship Nagelfar from growing. Nagelfar is the ship that Hel and Loki will ride on at Ragnarok, and it is made from the finger and toenails of the dead. So by clipping their nails, they wouldn't add to the ship, possibly delaying Ragnarok.

Fun fact!

 

[Breathe]

Thanks for adding more info.

And awesome fact!

 

[Antibush5]

Aparantly, in a tale, where Thor goes to hell, he runs into trouble with a ferryman at a river, to cut a story I barely know, short, the ferryman said "Odin gets all the warriors and the nobles, while you get all the farmers and thralls." So does this mean that Thor has people go to his hall?