A huge problem with the JW religion:

[Ancient Soul]

Mine wasn’t an opinion, it was a response.

I disagree.

 

[Ancient Soul]

So... are going to back up your wild overgeneralization, or were you trolling?

I disagree.

 

[Ancient Soul]

being a atheist is also a religion. and you are here to spread the word

Nope.

So that leaves the only thing left, that you have no idea what my beliefs are about but just want to start trolling me and start trouble.

 

[kjw47]

Now my statement was:

"I replied to a JW cult follower, that in itself explains "to what end" they would lie to him.

Although the same applies to ALL man made religions, as their sole purpose is to insert themselves in between man and God, so that gullible people look to MAN for answers, instead of God. And they do this to self-aggrandize themselves, money, control and power over others, with nothing truly spiritual to offer, just fancy meaningless words and empty rituals."

So if you disagree with this, in a forum it's up to YOU to present your case against my statement.

My statement was pretty straight forward, so you should be able to understand it.

Gods view of a cult= a House divided( 34,000 trinity based religions) will not stand-Mark 3:24-26
A true mark = 1Corinthians 1:10--Unity of thought, no division.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Gods view of a cult= a House divided( 34,000 trinity based religions) will not stand-Mark 3:24-26
A true mark = 1Corinthians 1:10--Unity of thought, no division.

Exactly, a cult won't allow anyone to think for themselves, but MUST be submissive to their brainwashing on what the cult wants them to believe.

 

[cataway]

Exactly, a cult won't allow anyone to think for themselves, but MUST be submissive to their brainwashing on what the cult wants them to believe.

cult's are also noted to have flamboyant leaders . David Koresh comes to mined . we have nothing like that not even close .

 

[Ancient Soul]

cult's are also noted to have flamboyant leaders . David Koresh comes to mined . we have nothing like that not even close .

Who are you referring to with the usage of "we"?

Are you a JW too?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What a pathetically low bar for a supposedly morally perfect God.

Then, what would you do? Israel had strict Laws, for sure, and some were capital offenses. But it kept their society strong! (And almost crime-free.) In fact, they are the only ones with their identity still existing! No more Jebusites or Philistines or Amonites.

Thought crimes? Really, that's not being discussed here.

Actions have repercussions, not thoughts.

At this moment, Jehovah tells us to remove unrepentant "recanters" from the congregation. It's the Biblical standard for Christians, now....1 Corinthians 5; 2 John 1:9-11.

But back in ancient Israel, discipline was more drastic.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Exactly, a cult won't allow anyone to think for themselves, but MUST be submissive to their brainwashing on what the cult wants them to believe.

That's fascinating!
The Apostle Paul describes a facet of genuine Christianity as having 'unity of mind & speaking in agreement', but you twist that description into "a cult [that] won't allow anyone to think for themselves"!
It's because we did 'think for ourselves' that we came to appreciate Jehovah's worship.

Over 8.5 million people (and growing) unified in our preaching & teaching, refusing war and maintaining a global loving brotherhood? That's Jehovah's spirit, man!

 

[Left Coast]

Then, what would you do?

Not treat people with different religious beliefs than me like they're dead. Particularly close friends or family members.

Israel had strict Laws, for sure, and some were capital offenses. But it kept their society strong! (And almost crime-free.)

I'm sure places in the world with similar laws today, like North Korea and Saudi Arabia, feel similarly. Would you like to live in either of those places?

In fact, they are the only ones with their identity still existing! No more Jebusites or Philistines or Amonites.

History of China - Wikipedia

Also, modern Israel does not stone people.

Thought crimes? Really, that's not being discussed here.

Your organization punishes people for wrong beliefs. Your organization also teaches that unbelievers, people who have wrong beliefs, will be punished by God. Thought crime is exactly what's being discussed here. (Or was...you're replying to a post I made 10 months ago).

 

[cataway]

Not treat people with different religious beliefs than me like they're dead. Particularly close friends or family members.



I'm sure places in the world with similar laws today, like North Korea and Saudi Arabia, feel similarly. Would you like to live in either of those places?



History of China - Wikipedia

Also, modern Israel does not stone people.



Your organization punishes people for wrong beliefs. Your organization also teaches that unbelievers, people who have wrong beliefs, will be punished by God. Thought crime is exactly what's being discussed here. (Or was...you're replying to a post I made 10 months ago).

it bothers you that there is a code of conduct ?

 

[Left Coast]

it bothers you that there is a code of conduct ?

Please re-read what I wrote. Is that what I said?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Not treat people with different religious beliefs than me like they're dead. Particularly close friends or family members.

“People with different religious beliefs”? If they’re JW’s, how do they acquire “different “ beliefs?
The ones who are disfellowshipped, made a vow to Jehovah, with full knowledge. Usually a disfellowshipping occurs for unrepentant immoral conduct, like stealing and fornication. (Mostly fornication.) Rarely for apostasy....

Being unrepentant, they left their family & organization, first!

I'm sure places in the world with similar laws today, like North Korea and Saudi Arabia, feel similarly. Would you like to live in either of those places?

According to Wikipedia, crime is pretty bad in North Korea. Excerpt....
“Many people in North Korea are stricken with poverty and as a result, often resort to extreme measures in order to survive. Several defectors have reported hearing rumours that murder and cannibalism is rife in the country.”
Crime in North Korea - Wikipedia

As for Saudi Arabia....let’s see....
According to Wikipedia, it does have a low crime rate, why?
Excerpt....
“Saudi Arabia has one of the highest execution rates in the world and executes people for crimes including murder, drug smuggling, rape, armed robbery, and terrorism offenses. It is one of only a handful of countries that impose the death penalty for child offenders.”

You don’t agree? (I’d feel safer.) Sounds like these criminals deserve what they get: rapists, murderers, child offenders need to be...what?... let out?

Your organization punishes people for wrong beliefs.

See above. I think I explained it good enough? When a person gets baptized as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, they have already come to recognize Jehovah’s teachings as truth, and they make a vow to live by His standards.

Some then willfully break it, and expect no repercussions? It saddens us. Philippians 3:18.
But many come back! (Tyler, in the video, did. But apparently wants to leave again.)

Your organization also teaches that unbelievers, people who have wrong beliefs, will be punished by God.

Nope. The clergy, ie., those who teach falsehoods... maybe. But not those who are innocently misled by them.

That’s really in Jehovah’s & Jesus’ purview.

 

[Left Coast]

“People with different religious beliefs”? If they’re JW’s, how do they acquire “different “ beliefs?

Your religion prides itself on proselytizing so that people will acquire different religious beliefs (yours) and join your organization.
You're not seriously wondering how it could be that people's religious beliefs change, are you? That would be truly baffling.

The ones who are disfellowshipped, made a vow to Jehovah, with full knowledge.

Uh huh. And then, perhaps, came to the conclusion that their prior beliefs about Jehovah were incorrect.

Usually a disfellowshipping occurs for unrepentant immoral conduct, like stealing and fornication. (Mostly fornication.) Rarely for apostasy....

Fornication! Like...people like me, having gay sex!

The truth is, most ex-JWs don't get formally disfellowshipped at all. They just fade away.

Being unrepentant, they left their family & organization, first!

Utter ********. Changing your religious beliefs, or having pre-marital sex, or any number of other non-crimes, is not "leaving one's family." That's the thing about groups like your organization. You conflate honest changes of opinion with some kind of horribly immoral betrayal. It's deeply cruel and repressive.

According to Wikipedia, crime is pretty bad in North Korea. Excerpt....
“Many people in North Korea are stricken with poverty and as a result, often resort to extreme measures in order to survive. Several defectors have reported hearing rumours that murder and cannibalism is rife in the country.”
Crime in North Korea - Wikipedia

Huh. So it's almost as though extremely repressive societies lie about how well their societies function. Hmmm...let's apply that to the next example:

As for Saudi Arabia....let’s see....
According to Wikipedia, it does have a low crime rate, why?
Excerpt....
“Saudi Arabia has one of the highest execution rates in the world and executes people for crimes including murder, drug smuggling, rape, armed robbery, and terrorism offenses. It is one of only a handful of countries that impose the death penalty for child offenders.”

You don’t agree? (I’d feel safer.) Sounds like these criminals deserve what they get: rapists, murderers, child offenders need to be...what?... let out?

I assume you don't know this, but one of the other features of this amazing Saudi society that you think is so great?

Your religion is illegal.

And that's the problem with authoritarianism. Sounds great till you're the minority, you're the one standing trial for what should be a non-crime. Then suddenly you realize, hm, maybe this uber-strict society isn't all it's cracked up to be.

See above. I think I explained it good enough? When a person gets baptized as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, they have already come to recognize Jehovah’s teachings as truth, and they make a vow to live by His standards.

Some then willfully break it, and expect no repercussions? It saddens us. Philippians 3:18.
But many come back! (Tyler, in the video, did. But apparently wants to leave again.)

It saddens me that you treat people like they're dead simply because they come to the conclusion that your organization is wrong. I prefer religious freedom, both publicly and privately.

Nope. The clergy, ie., those who teach falsehoods... maybe. But not those who are innocently misled by them.

That’s really in Jehovah’s & Jesus’ purview.

So you're telling me that your organization does not teach that we must follow the correct religion (yours) to be approved by God and live in Paradise Earth?

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989093

 

[Hockeycowboy]

My cousin, I could reply to each point you make, but it really boils down to your statement...

I prefer religious freedom, both publicly and privately.

As do most. (That's why there are so many religions, right? Even those that say it's ok to kill the innocent during war.)

But God has standards, and trying to maintain obedience to those standards should be paramount.

Take care.

 

[Left Coast]

My cousin, I could reply to each point you make, but it really boils down to your statement...


As do most. (That's why there are so many religions, right? Even those that say it's ok to kill the innocent during war.)

But God has standards, and trying to maintain obedience to those standards should be paramount.

Take care.

I agree, in many ways it does boil down to whether you endorse religious freedom or not. Many religions existed before secularism, so no, secularism isn't their cause. Secularism derives from the recognition that life is better when we stop persecuting each other for belonging to the wrong religion in each other's eyes and forcing our religious beliefs on one another by rule of law. Thankfully, more and more societies on the planet have come to this realization over time, and will hopefully continue to do so.

Have a good one.

 

[danieldemol]

Israel had strict Laws, for sure, and some were capital offenses. But it kept their society strong! (And almost crime-free.)

It kept there society so strong that they were overpowered by people who didn't follow Moses' law such as the Romans.

There is no evidence that their society was almost crime free, only empty religious assertion.