A humbling experience

[Spiderman]

So I was going to place this in the Islamic DIR but wont because every time I do it gets moved.

So I volunteered at Prince of Peace in Applevalley Minnesota. I work with an Arab named Aslam. I was grinding his gears with comments like "Isis killed these teens because of Sharia Law. It isn't okay to make an image of Muhammad but it is okay to kill people who do. How ridiculous".

The room got quiet and ackward. Aslam's Christian friends were more offended than he was. I said, Muhammad did what Isis does, and it is in the Quaran and Hadiths, as I got up and poured coffee. The room remained silent and all were uncomfortable. Aslam didn't say a thing in defense.

I felt guilty. Even if you have anti-Islamic sentiments in your heart, if you don't speak them, you won't offend anyone. Once you speak them, all you do is offend those whose Religion is dear to their heart, and accomplish nothing.

So when I was outside, and we were moving the carts, I told Aslam, I'm sorry what I said about Islam, I hate the extremists. He put his hand on my shoulder and said something along the lines of "most of us Muslims hate them too, they hurt Islam". (but not those exact words)

After that, he and his Christian friends were so at ease and friendly with me. This might seem subtle to you but to me this little experience revolutionized my approach to Islam and Arabs.

I want to make my peace with Islam final but Im still very angry with how Arab Governments cut off hands, cut off heads, and stone adulterers and homosexuals, and treat women like less than human.

Anyhow, I praise God for my lesson learned today. I was the dick, and the Arab was the bigger and more mature person. Had he reacted with hostility, we would have been in a fight. But his kind approach disarmed me.

Praise Allah!

 

[Deidre]

If I could give you 1000 likes, I would! That was the best thing you have posted on this site, and maybe anywhere. lol
I'm happy you learned this today, and thank you for sharing!

 

[Spiderman]

If I could give you 1000 likes, I would! That was the best thing you have posted on this site, and maybe anywhere. lol
I'm happy you learned this today, and thank you for sharing!

And you know what...even before this experience...i was thinking...how much I was grateful that you found God! You are are a star and princess in his eyes. I always knew it

 

[gsa]

I have a lot of Muslim acquaintances. My first boyfriend came from a Muslim family, an immediate family member is dating a Muslim and I work and socialize with Muslims on a regular basis. They range from near apostate status to devout. One friend is very involved in the Syrian exile opposition movement. Many of these people pray regularly, wear the hijab and, I'm quite sure, believe that I'm committing very serious sins, ones that will result in my damnation, on a regular basis. So there's no denying that some of us disagree very strongly on fundamental issues of religion.

I'll admit, I disagree pretty strongly with Islam. Not simply with Islamic extremism, but with the mainstream of the Islamic tradition. I think the religion is in desperate need of reform. I think that the Islamic approach to apostasy, blasphemy, homosexuality, premarital sex and other "sins" is morally offensive and backwards. I know very well that progressive Muslims are a small minority and out of step with the tradition as a whole, as are progressive Christians. I encourage both, not because I particularly care for the belief system but because I think that encouraging religious liberalism will lead to greater social and political freedom.

On the other hand, I rarely feel the need to bring up my criticisms of Islam when I'm interacting with Muslims. And why would I? They're not explaining the evils of homosexuality or secularism in my presence, certainly. For similar reasons, I don't ask my Jewish friends how they can support the Israeli government's occupation of Palestinian territories or make it a point to bring up the child sex abuse scandal when I'm talking with my Catholic friends and relatives. Partly to avoid offending them, but also because I am sure that they have nuanced, complex feelings about these subjects. And I want to encourage them to rethink their assumptions about certain subjects, which is a hopeless endeavor if I start by asking offensive leading questions or making inflammatory comments.

I'm not sure what I would label my religious and spiritual beliefs today, but I can tell you that I am probably far closer, substantively, to someone like Sam Harris than I am to, say, Reza Aslan, on those questions. But while I think that Harris has a number of reasonable things to say, I also think that he lacks nuance and has a tendency to say unnecessarily inflammatory and provocative things about religion, particularly Islam. I think describing the Muslim world as "utterly deranged," whatever the qualifier attached, is probably a nonstarter for most people. But do I think he is wrong about the nature of Abrahamic tradition? No, not really. What is described as religious moderation, at least in Christianity and Islam, is a marginal component of the traditions that was basically secured by the blood of secular martyrs. I think that most people who believe that the Quran and/or the Bible are divinely inspired, infallible and inerrant are either deluded or willfully ignorant. I just don't walk around making a point of telling them that, unless they insist on imposing their religious beliefs on others. This includes a demand for special recognition of one's religious sensibilities.

Were you a dick? Probably. But not because of the substance of your comment, and not because Aslam agrees with you about the contours and definition of Islamic extremism. You were just a dick because you were expressing your sentiments in an inappropriate setting.

 

[Spiderman]

Encouraging liberalism through love and understanding is the way to go. If Islam would stop with the violence and killing, no one would be happier than me. Even if Islam conquered the world, I'd be okay with it provided that they were a people who prayed five times a day, dressed modestly, abstained from alcohol and pork, and didn't cut of hands, heads, or stone people. No one would be happier than me to see this.

Also, while praying my Rosary today, It came to me, in a vision that I saw in my imagination, of the prophet rising before sunset, despite Muhammad killing all those people and looting those cities; before the sun rose, he rose to bow before the rising sun and praise the God of all creation.

Despite his misdeeds, he loved God and sacrificed for him. That helped me to cease with my anger.

 

[Deidre]

And you know what...even before this experience...i was thinking...how much I was grateful that you found God! You are are a star and princess in his eyes. I always knew it

Yea, you always knew. I never felt comfortable as an atheist, I'm one of those people who needs spirituality. Needs faith. Even when I've been praying the prayers in Islam lately, I can't say for sure who or what he may be, but I will say this. I feel that a god is real...and it's just a matter of finding our own way of communicating with him that will determine our own fulfillment. The last place I thought I'd ever end up is at the doorstep of another Abrahamic faith...but, I didn't choose Islam, it seems like it chose me.

Bless you for apologizing to Aslam.

 

[Spiderman]

Hey, maybe I'll tell Aslam about your conversion to Islam and make a youtube video of him talking to you, if he is okay with that, im not sure yet, he is doing community service because he broke the law lol

If you get a prayer rug and prayer beads, send me a pic, and maybe even a pic of your Muslim friends

And if you get a hijab/burka

Just don't you EVER persecute non muslims!

 

[Deidre]

Hey, maybe I'll tell Aslam about your conversion to Islam and make a youtube video of him talking to you, if he is okay with that, im not sure yet, he is doing community service because he broke the law lol

If you get a prayer rug and prayer beads, send me a pic, and maybe even a pic of your Muslim friends

And if you get a hijab/burka

Just don't you EVER persecute non muslims!

haha I will never persecute anyone. Only you, maybe jk

It's funny you say this, I was talking to Sha about hijab, and I'm going to shop for some this weekend, me thinks. No burka, tho. I don't believe in the burka, as it steals a woman's identity. That is just my view.

Yes, that would be very cool if Aslam spoke to me. I didn't convert yet, though. I want to be more fluid in the prayers first, and learn more before I commit. Because I once I commit to a religion this time, I won't leave it. I made that promise to myself that I don't want to go through what I did with Christianity.

 

[Spiderman]

Okay, Aslam isn't always there. This was the first time I saw him in a few weeks.

Next time I see him, if I have my phone on me, I'll ask him to speak to Deidre.

Hey, this morning when you said your Muslim friends had been praying all this time for you to convert, I thought, Deidre's exageratting or lying. But I didn't know what I was about to experience with Aslam and my change of heart. Now I believe you!

 

[Nietzsche]

 

[Spiderman]

So you are implying that i"m the Grinch?

And my heart tripled in size?

Haha...Nietzhe has spoken!

 

[Nietzsche]

So you are implying that i"m the Grinch?

And my heart tripled in size?

Haha...Nietzhe has spoken!
View attachment 7500

Not a Grinch per-say, just someone whos' view of Islam is rather limited, though I hope you remember this lesson. Namely, that people are people, regardless of what kind of hat they wear.

 

[Deidre]

Okay, Aslam isn't always there. This was the first time I saw him in a few weeks.

Next time I see him, if I have my phone on me, I'll ask him to speak to Deidre.

Hey, this morning when you said your Muslim friends had been praying all this time for you to convert, I thought, Deidre's exageratting or lying. But I didn't know what I was about to experience with Aslam and my change of heart. Now I believe you!

lol

My Muslim friends are insane prayer warriors, what can I say. The only downside if I do convert, is I don't speak Arabic, and the prayers and chants are so amazingly beautiful in that language. Just need to keep trying. I say the prayers in Arabic with the English translation next to it right now.

 

[Spiderman]

I was so bitter towards Islam!

Im glad this happened.

It is huge!

I long for the days when Christians, Jews, and Muslims can

 

[Deidre]

I was so bitter towards Islam!

Im glad this happened.

It is huge! View attachment 7501View attachment 7502

I long for the days when Christians, Jews, and Muslims can

Or better yet. When people don't live by labels.

 

[Spiderman]

Or better yet. When people don't live by labels.

Yeah....you know...sometimes a change of heart, mind, soul, and outlook is a greater miracle than a paralyzed person walking!

 

[jeager106]

I disagree strongly with the religion of islam.
I'm allowed.
The greatest area of violence using islam as the excuse some from the middle east.
On another thread was mentioned the bedouin menality.
Well there is the root cause of violent islam.
This link will take you to a list of muslim countries with the % of the population of muslims.
You will be surprised that you have never heard of many.
The greatest amount of inhuman violence stems from middle east countries that are predominantely muslim. Saudi Arabia and it's nieghbors.
That region has been waring with one another since pre-islam days.
Add a religion that I find convoluted at best and you have a recipe for a religious war.
Oh, we are in a religious war.

Islam and Violence

We can blame inept foriegn policy and be partly right, blame the Jews and miss the point all together.

The culture of the region of the middle east is ripe with warfare since before Muhammed was born. Tribal warfare goes on today just as it did 5,000 years ago.
Add modern commnuications, ease of travel, the proliferation of weapons and you have jihad.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Or better yet. When people don't live by labels.

Like hell that will happen. I despise labels a lot but I love using them at the same time. When in any given situation I will tell someone almost contradicting things to define myself.
If I debated an atheist I would probably say I was a Muslim or some other religion and if I debated a Muslim I would say I am an atheist. It is all relative

 

[Deidre]

Like hell that will happen. I despise labels a lot but I love using them at the same time. When in any given situation I will tell someone almost contradicting things to define myself.
If I debated an atheist I would probably say I was a Muslim or some other religion and if I debated a Muslim I would say I am an atheist. It is all relative

Okay, Stalin-chan. ^_^
I will always use labels with YOU.

 

[Spiderman]

I disagree strongly with the religion of islam.
I'm allowed.
The greatest area of violence using islam as the excuse some from the middle east.
On another thread was mentioned the bedouin menality.
Well there is the root cause of violent islam.
This link will take you to a list of muslim countries with the % of the population of muslims.
You will be surprised that you have never heard of many.
The greatest amount of inhuman violence stems from middle east countries that are predominantely muslim. Saudi Arabia and it's nieghbors.
That region has been waring with one another since pre-islam days.
Add a religion that I find convoluted at best and you have a recipe for a religious war.
Oh, we are in a religious war.

Islam and Violence

We can blame inept foriegn policy and be partly right, blame the Jews and miss the point all together.

The culture of the region of the middle east is ripe with warfare since before Muhammed was born. Tribal warfare goes on today just as it did 5,000 years ago.
Add modern commnuications, ease of travel, the proliferation of weapons and you have jihad.

Yeah...i have a fixation with Arabia. The sand has been soaked with blood since the seventh century and beyond.

I have seen little girls get their heads chopped off for not renouncing their Christian faith. I have seen beautiful young ladies getting bricks thrown on their heads until nothing remains but a puddle of blood brain and skull fragments.

I have seen Taliban shooting women in the soccer stadium. Why is it always happening to women? What about the men they were fornicating with?

What about the innocent child who's hand was cut off? Some of them were falsely accused. Can you give them their hand back?

My mind is tormented with this stuff. THe middle eastern and north African Governments let this take place as a spectacle like it's a baseball game.

It is legal. Everyone shouts, "Allah Akbar!" I watched the be headings. It gives me nightmares!

We need a new Islam! We need it soon! I pray for it.

I wish I were there suffering with those innocent people who are stoned and beheaded for being freethinkers. I wish I could carry some of their burden