A lot Of People Talk About Needing Evidence To Believe There’s A God

[ImmortalFlame]

Life itself is evidence. It’s more than just atoms like some people think. Life is a miracle. A literal miracle.

Define "miracle", because if you're using the conventional definition then your argument is a literal circular argument.

If not, you would need to demonstrate that a God is strictly necessary for the formation of life.

 

[Jimmy]

If "something" exists, and we call it "God" because we don't know what it is and we can't think of anything else to call it, then we still don't know what that "something" actually is. And if we don't know what it is that we're called upon to "believe in," why do we need to believe in it in the first place? And if we don't believe, we go to hell?

It may turn out that we've all been victims of some bizarre practical joke. People take life and the universe and God as if it's some big serious thing, but what if it's all just some big amusement park? How can anyone prove it's not? Or maybe our existence is just some form of entertainment. On planets across the universe, perhaps the Earth is presented as a big reality show. Humans in their natural habitat.

I know what it is. It’s a living miracle.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

To me and logic, manifestation of infallible certainty, can only be one pattern of behavior for creation to exist without failure.

To me, this is the intelligence of creation that existed before anything was ever created was even created.

This is the will Jesus delivered in the flesh as the Christ for all man to become transformed into the image of the creator God for the father.

How else could creation get into humanity, the intelligence that manifest immortality, incorruptibility, becoming glorified and transfigured into the image of creation for the father.

And in logic this is what I see.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I know what it is. It’s a living miracle.

Can you demonstrate this with objective evidence (or as-near-to-objective-as-it-can-be evidence), or is it just something you believe?

 

[Valjean]

Life itself is evidence. It’s more than just atoms like some people think. Life is a miracle. A literal miracle.

How so? -- just because you don't understand it and it astonishes you?

 

[Valjean]

Peace to all,

To me and logic, manifestation of infallible certainty, can only be one pattern of behavior for creation to exist without failure.

To me, this is the intelligence of creation that existed before anything was ever created was even created.

Huh?

This is the will Jesus delivered in the flesh as the Christ for all man to become transformed into the image of the creator God for the father.

????

How else could creation get into humanity, the intelligence that manifest immortality, incorruptibility, becoming glorified and transfigured into the image of creation for the father.

This is gobbledygook.

And in logic this is what I see.

Please explain what you mean by "logic."

 

[Jimmy]

Peace to all,

To me and logic, manifestation of infallible certainty, can only be one pattern of behavior for creation to exist without failure.

To me, this is the intelligence of creation that existed before anything was ever created was even created.

This is the will Jesus delivered in the flesh as the Christ for all man to become transformed into the image of the creator God for the father.

How else could creation get into humanity, the intelligence that manifest immortality, incorruptibility, becoming glorified and transfigured into the image of creation for the father.

And in logic this is what I see.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

Long reign the king

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

Science has already thrown in the towel on trying to prove the static state of fulfilled eternity that is static and unfailing yet dynamic in fulfilled, eternal love using finite disciplines.

Logic is a discipline that doesn’t require the finite laws of earth.

Creation becoming to immortality and transfigured can be explained using logic. To me and logic it is the will of the creator that we become one in being.

Science can never explain created flesh becoming transformed into the image of creation for the Father.

Logic is the tool I use logic to explain eternity.

Peace always,
m Stephen Andrew

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace

Peace to all,
Some believe Elijah will return.

We know God is good.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[George-ananda]

If life itself, a miracle beyond words, isn’t enough evidence then I don’t know what to tell you.

I agree myself, but a physicalist-atheist would argue that it all could have evolved through matter just observing the physical laws.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to Ali,

True, and good information George.

To me in logic and faith, The physical laws of the new universe will not include choice or any kind of chance of failure. Manifestation will be through infallible certainty.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Valjean]

Life itself is evidence. It’s more than just atoms like some people think. Life is a miracle. A literal miracle.

No. Life is a chemical phenomenon; complex, but understandable.
A claim of "miracle" is a claim of magic. It's a poetic way of justifying an unsupported belief.

 

[Valjean]

Peace to all,

Science has already thrown in the towel on trying to prove the static state of fulfilled eternity that is static and unfailing yet dynamic in fulfilled, eternal love using finite disciplines.

Huh?

Logic is a discipline that doesn’t require the finite laws of earth.

"...finite laws of Earth?"

Creation becoming to immortality and transfigured can be explained using logic. To me and logic it is the will of the creator that we become one in being.

Before explanation, it must first be demonstrated to exist.
No. Logic is not the will of the creator. Logic is a validity assessment tool.

Science can never explain created flesh becoming transformed into the image of creation for the Father.

Of course not. Why would it try? Before attempting to explain something, shouldn't there be actual evidence that is occurs?

Logic is the tool I use logic to explain eternity.

This tool? Boolean algebra - Wikipedia

 

[Valjean]

Peace to Ali,

True, and good information George.

To me in logic and faith, The physical laws of the new universe will not include choice or any kind of chance of failure. Manifestation will be through infallible certainty.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

What new universe? Manifestation of what?
"...in logic and faith" -- what does that mean?

 

[Valjean]

Peace to all,

The religious leaders knew that Elijah has to return before the king.

They asked St. John the Baptist if he was Elijah, and he simply said, “ I am not.”

John thought he could not possibly be the great person of spirit and power of Elijah.

Logical proof Jesus is God.

And Jesus said, “Elijah has already returned and in the spirit and power of John the Baptist.”

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

How is this recitation of folklore logic, or proof of anything?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Then, it seems, it is Gods fault there are non-believers...

Well if there's a plan, I'd imagine we're all part of it, believer and non believer alike. But who knows the mind of God? Certainly not me.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Dismissing?
Who's dismissing? You're making an unevidenced claim.
I'm just speculating about the logical fallacies underlying it.

I don't see any logical fallacy in the simple observation that, if existence is truly miraculous, some Power far greater than us must have initiated the miracle.

 

[Quintessence]

Everyone accepts that there are big, grand things out there. What I don't accept is the claim of a conscious, intentional, magical creator.

You don't have to - you can either be a theist whose gods don't have those qualities or a non-theist.

Ontological reality is what's being claimed -- and what I'm not seeing evidence of.
You seem to be claiming here that truth is irrelevant and that the utility of the belief is what's important.
Some of us are interested in what's real or true, not just what's useful.

I'm not claiming anything, I'm expressing the experiential and emotional root that leads to theistic worldviews. If anything, those are deeper truths than those that are merely talked about - they are lived and known through direct personal experience. Which, at the end of the day, is the only measure of ontological reality any human has. It all has to go through our lived experiences and personal filters; truth becomes personal and whatever story it is we want to tell about it based on how our lives have gone. Hence, you can do what you want in regards to the tales you wish to tell - follow what inspires and makes sense for your life experiences. Everybody does that.

 

[Valjean]

I don't see any logical fallacy in the simple observation that, if existence is truly miraculous, some Power far greater than us must have initiated the miracle.

The premise of miraculous is unsupported.
Miraculous = magical.
The conclusion that a power far greater than us must have initiated the universe's primordial inflation, by magic, doesn't follow.

Kalam cosmological argument - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Jimmy]

The premise of miraculous is unsupported.
Miraculous = magical.
The conclusion that a power far greater than us must have initiated the universe's primordial inflation, by magic, doesn't follow.

You can believe that all of existence has always been here and always will be.