A majority of Muslims in England are against free speech, according to a poll

[waitasec]

whick reaction you mean?

this one
[youtube]5YXj9Jh9Rrs[/youtube]
78% of UK Muslims oppose free speech - YouTube[/QUOTE]

anyway i agree that we should have just neglected him

and that right there would have said something about the muslim faith in a positive light.

but you know where is the prolem?
muslims feels that western government and alot of western people support such actions!!

it is, after all, everyones right to feel and express themselves so long as it is not infringing on anyones inalienable rights

that's why they don't find it only a person's behaviour

we cannot control what people feel and do so long as it is not infringing on anyones inalienable rights

expressing an opinion that happens to be taken as an insult is ultimately saying the expression became an insult in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[Mohamed]

Then they should study the West to understand what free speech is all about.
Things are said. That does not mean the state supports all such things.

but some other actions helps that way
like banning hijab (scurf) in schools and banning niqab in France,and banning towers of mosques in switzerland,etc...
that pushes them towards negative thoughts

 

[Revoltingest]

but some other actions helps that way
like banning hijab (scurf) in schools and banning niqab in France,and banning towers of mosques in switzerland,etc...
that pushes them towards negative thoughts

They are responsible for their own thoughts & actions.
Moreover, the West is not a single entity...different countries have different laws & values.
This is just as recognizing that not all Muslims are terrorists. One should understand differences.

 

[Mohamed]

yes,we know that and there are countries that we really love in Europe
we just blame countries wich do such things

 

[waitasec]

we just blame countries wich do such things

then why move there and subject yourself to a way of life you do not adhere to?
what is your definition of culture?

 

[Mohamed]

can't we live in the same place with different cultures??
how come a country claims it's liberal while doing such things?
just tell me that you are a conservative nation and surely i will accept you like that
but don't show yourself as liberal while you are not

 

[waitasec]

can't we live in the same place with different cultures??

why do you suppose there are different cultures?

how come a country claims it's liberal while doing such things?

what things? feeling free to speak our minds?

just tell me that you are a conservative nation and surely i will accept you like that
but don't show yourself as liberal while you are not

well if we persecuted people for speaking their minds i'd say that is being very conservative, not just that but walking in the opposite direction of progress.
do you agree with the ideals of human rights? or do you think it is the right of one person to have dominion over another?
speaking my mind is not having dominion over any one unless that person gives power to what i say due to insecurity
why would anyone want to give their power away?

 

[Mohamed]

why do you suppose there are different cultures?


what things? feeling free to speak our minds?

well if we persecuted people for speaking their minds i'd say that is being very conservative, not just that but walking in the opposite direction of progress.
do you agree with the ideals of human rights? or do you think it is the right of one person to have dominion over another?
speaking my mind is not having dominion over any one unless that person gives power to what i say due to insecurity
why would anyone want to give their power away?

i never said that they should have banned him from doing that!!!
you keep saying that while i didn't say it
i was talking about things against muslims
just see post 62
that's what i'm talking about

 

[waitasec]

i never said that they should have banned him from doing that!!!
you keep saying that while i didn't say it
i was talking about things against muslims
just see post 62
that's what i'm talking about

that has to do with culture.
i don't want to get into that with you on this thread...
trust me i've been on that merry go round before...

islam seems to be a nationalistic religion imposing it's eastern culture onto a western one.
we have laws. and yes laws are meant to be challenged. if the islamic community is feeling they are being treated unfairly, then it is up to the islamic community to establish an argument that adheres to the constitution of the land. equality is of the essence from what i gather the banning of the niqab in france came from several situations where the woman could not be identified and was asked to remove the head covering when she drove her car....i don't understand why arabs are to be above the law of the land when everyone has to adhere to the same law. please correct me if i'm wrong. i am not privy to the scarf situation, if you can provide a source i would love to read it.

 

[Mohamed]

that has to do with culture.
i don't want to get into that with you on this thread...
trust me i've been on that merry go round before...

islam seems to be a nationalistic religion imposing it's eastern culture onto a western one.
we have laws. and yes laws are meant to be challenged. if the islamic community is feeling they are being treated unfairly, then it is up to the islamic community to establish an argument that adheres to the constitution of the land. equality is of the essence from what i gather the banning of the niqab in france came from several situations where the woman could not be identified and was asked to remove the head covering when she drove her car....i don't understand why arabs are to be above the law of the land when everyone has to adhere to the same law. please correct me if i'm wrong. i am not privy to the scarf situation, if you can provide a source i would love to read it.

it's since 2003
BBC NEWS | Europe | German state backs headscarf ban

Germany to ban teachers' scarves - Archive - Al Jazeera English

Nuns defend habits in row over Islam scarf ban - Telegraph

German Ban on Headscarves Violates Rights, Says Watchdog | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 26.02.2009

and switzerland banned building mosques towers!!!

we have laws. and yes laws are meant to be challenged. if the islamic community is feeling they are being treated unfairly, then it is up to the islamic community to establish an argument that adheres to the constitution of the land. equality is of the essence from what i gather the banning of the niqab in france came from several situations where the woman could not be identified and was asked to remove the head covering when she drove her car....i don't understand why arabs are to be above the law of the land when everyone has to adhere to the same law. please correct me if i'm wrong

that's what western muslims do
we are talking about the action not the reaction

 

[beenie]

and switzerland banned building mosques towers!!!

By "towers", do you mean minarets?

that's what western muslims do
we are talking about the action not the reaction

Not sure I follow what you're saying here.

 

[Mohamed]

By "towers", do you mean minarets?

yes,but i didn't find the word
thanks for the help

 

[aþalwulf88]

While the behavior of some Muslims is extreme and a huge problem for Europe, there are already laws that prohibit certain speech in Europe. I also think that the presence of those laws is also a part of the problem.

In Germany, Austria, Poland, Hungary, or the Netherlands, there are laws relating to the discussion of a certain historical event, for instance, or if you "incite hate" against blacks or Jews. In Sweden, the preacher Ake Green was sentenced to jail time because he preached homosexuality was a sin. I wonder who pushed for those laws. Certainly it wasn't Muslims.

 

[Invisible Pink Unicorn]

While the behavior of some Muslims is extreme and a huge problem for Europe, there are already laws that prohibit certain speech in Europe. I also think that the presence of those laws is also a part of the problem.

In Germany, Austria, Poland, Hungary, or the Netherlands, there are laws relating to the discussion of a certain historical event, for instance, or if you "incite hate" against blacks or Jews. In Sweden, the preacher Ake Green was sentenced to jail time because he preached homosexuality was a sin. I wonder who pushed for those laws. Certainly it wasn't Muslims.

Do honestly think saying "I don't believe in God" is the same as Holocaust Denial or racial prejudice? There is no proof that god exists, yet there is TONS of proof for the Holocaust, and racial prejudice/homophobia has been proven to be unjustified and hurtful to people and society.

Besides you can say whatever you want but your rights end at the tip of other people's noses. If it affects others negatively, i.e. job discrimination, segregation, violence, or even inciting violence (which would involve speaking) that is illegal and crosses the line from free speech into hate speech.

 

[aþalwulf88]

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate here.

How, specifically, have expressions of racial prejudice or homophobia (not actually beating up someone of a different race, but just verbalizing that you have something against a particular ethnic group) been proven detrimental, other than the fact that some people might be offended by it?

Also, considering that giving Jewish people dirty looks is now punishable in the Netherlands, it seems like not just Muslims are against Free Speech.

Since the issue is Free Speech, I should be allowed to offend someone for any reason if you apply the principle equally.

 

[waitasec]

it's since 2003
BBC NEWS | Europe | German state backs headscarf ban

Germany to ban teachers' scarves - Archive - Al Jazeera English

Nuns defend habits in row over Islam scarf ban - Telegraph

German Ban on Headscarves Violates Rights, Says Watchdog | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 26.02.2009

and switzerland banned building mosques towers!!!




that's what western muslims do
we are talking about the action not the reaction

but what you are showing me is in support of the head scarf by human rights watchdogs...
as far as i am concerned this ban on the scarf is ridiculous and i think this too will be an issue that will be resolved because i think it is a right. as far as switzerland is concerned, they have very distinctive characteristics, architecturally speaking...
i couldn't imagine western buildings being built in an arab country... i could be wrong but personally i wouldn't like it...it takes away from the distinctness of what an arab city looks like... it's like putting a mcdonalds next to a popular arab cafe...it takes away from the aesthetic look of what an arab city looks like.

 

[aþalwulf88]

Nuns defend habits in row over Islam scarf ban - Telegraph

I think in some ways, the headscarf ban was a way to test the waters; to see how the public would react. Eventually the secularist German government would like to ban all religious symbols, including Christian ones.

 

[Mohamed]

but what you are showing me is in support of the head scarf by human rights watchdogs...
as far as i am concerned this ban on the scarf is ridiculous and i think this too will be an issue that will be resolved because i think it is a right. as far as switzerland is concerned, they have very distinctive characteristics, architecturally speaking...
i couldn't imagine western buildings being built in an arab country... i could be wrong but personally i wouldn't like it...it takes away from the distinctness of what an arab city looks like... it's like putting a mcdonalds next to a popular arab cafe...it takes away from the aesthetic look of what an arab city looks like.

in fact Egypt forexample has a group of the best churches ever
arab world is not raciest at all
Egypt has 90% muslims and 10% christians
ofcourse some problems happen
but we are very involved
we lived like that over 1400 year
isn't that a sign of tolerance!!!
even it was an islamic country in medievial ages with shria law
jews too lived in Egypt all that time
while Europe got rid from all other ethnics including jews

and why you compare Europe to arab world now??!!
don't you blame on us that we don't respect freedom of speech and liberal communities??
strange that when i blame on something against liberal in the west i listen things like (look at Saudi Arabia that doesn't allow non muslims to enter Mecca or Medina!!!!)
like if Saudia Arabia is claiming the whole time it's a liberal democratic country
let's then compare Egypt to Vatican lol
is that logic??
Vatican says clearly it's a country based on religion
what about Israel!!!!!

just compare Europe to it's principles not to any other country


and by the way it's the hair cover not the face cover wich was banned in 2003 in schools

 

[darkendless]

[youtube]5YXj9Jh9Rrs[/youtube]
78% of UK Muslims oppose free speech - YouTube

..... and yet they often use the free speech to preach hate and threaten the countries they move too. What a shining endorsement for integration and immigration even if it isnt an appropriate majority.

Then again if they don't like it, they should probably stop holding up signs saying "behead those who insult islam" and the such.

 

[waitasec]

in fact Egypt forexample has a group of the best churches ever
arab world is not raciest at all
Egypt has 90% muslims and 10% christians
ofcourse some problems happen
but we are very involved
we lived like that over 1400 year
isn't that a sign of tolerance!!!
even it was an islamic country in medievial ages with shria law
jews too lived in Egypt all that time
while Europe got rid from all other ethnics including jews

and why you compare Europe to arab world now??!!
don't you blame on us that we don't respect freedom of speech and liberal communities??
strange that when i blame on something against liberal in the west i listen things like (look at Saudi Arabia that doesn't allow non muslims to enter Mecca or Medina!!!!)
like if Saudia Arabia is claiming the whole time it's a liberal democratic country
let's then compare Egypt to Vatican lol
is that logic??
Vatican says clearly it's a country based on religion
what about Israel!!!!!

just compare Europe to it's principles not to any other country


and by the way it's the hair cover not the face cover wich was banned in 2003 in schools

i googled churches in egypt...

and this is what a church in switzerland looks like

and here is a mosque in switzerland...

do you notice a trend...?
the churches look like mosques in egypt the mosques look like mosques in switzerland...