A maximum wage - good idea?

[nnmartin]

Penumbra:

no, not at all because most consumers are powerless.

We have to shop at places like Wallmart etc. as there are no viable alternatives.

This is because the system creates such a situation intentionally.

 

[Penumbra]

It's a way of viewing/describing people.

I noticed.

Some control their own destiny more than others.

Or operate under the illusion that they do.

It seems to me that nnmartin favors a system which would make people more similar.
I don't see that happening.

I remember creating a thread on economics where people were casually referring to other people as drones. I occasionally see people referring to people as other species of animals as well, in economic discussions.

It's interesting.

 

[nnmartin]

How is that different from what we have now?

It is clearly different now.

At present we have the higher echelons owning all the property, land, businesses and decision making bodies - supported by the masses.

So there is only equality for 'those that can afford it'.

One works most of his life paying a mortgage or rent to the landlord (or bank) that already owns numerous properties and who quite often adds nothing to the productivity of society.

 

[Penumbra]

Penumbra:

no, not at all because most consumers are powerless.

We have to shop at places like Wallmart etc. as there are no viable alternatives.

This is because the system creates such a situation intentionally.

Ok, it's not the consumer's fault, it's someone else's fault.

It's their fault, whoever they are. It's easier, I suppose.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say there are no viable alternatives to Walmart.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is clearly different now.
At present we have the higher echelons owning all the property, land, businesses and decision making bodies - supported by the masses.
There is only equality for 'those that can afford it'.

Your "farm hands" will work for someone else.
Who would that be, & why would they be better off?

 

[Revoltingest]

Or operate under the illusion that they do.

I prefer the illusion of liberty & independence to the illusion of restriction & servitude.

I remember creating a thread on economics where people were casually referring to other people as drones. I occasionally see people referring to people as other species of animals as well, in economic discussions.
It's interesting.

Its fun!

 

[Penumbra]

Its fun!

If you say so.

 

[nnmartin]

Ok, it's not the consumer's fault, it's someone else's fault.

It's their fault, whoever they are. It's easier, I suppose.

It is the result of the blind machine of capitalism.

Those who champion this system in all its free trade ugliness, must share some of the blame , yes.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say there are no viable alternatives to Walmart.

Most retail outlets are run or subservient to large chain outlets these days so we do not have as much choice as you seem to be implying.

 

[nnmartin]

Your "farm hands" will work for someone else.
Who would that be, & why would they be better off?

First of all, wages across the board will be regulated so you could not just move to a higher paying job - they would all be very similar in wage rate.

However, the idea is, that at the end of the week you would be paying out a much lower percentage of your wage check on rent, transport, utilities etc..as these would all be nationalised industries not seeking a blind profit.

All housing will either be social or made to keep in line by the 'Rent Review Board'.

So the average person will have more disposable income, although those used to a higher standard of living will have less.

This is progress for the common man.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm not really sure what the deal is with referring to people as various types of other animals.

I think when we put other people down we gain a sense, however fleeting and illusionary, of ourselves being superior to them.

 

[McBell]

First of all, wages across the board will be regulated so you could not just move to a higher paying job - they would all be very similar in wage rate.

However, the idea is, that at the end of the week you would be paying out a much lower percentage of your wage check on rent, transport, utilities etc..as these would all be nationalised industries not seeking a blind profit.

All housing will either be social or made to keep in line by the 'Rent Review Board'.

So the average person will have more disposable income, although those used to a higher standard of living will have less.

This is progress for the common man.

Who is going to regulate, enforce, and control all this?
The government?
:biglaugh:

Sounds like you want your own form of Communism...

 

[rageoftyrael]

I don't have to put other people down to think that i'm superior to them. I just know....lol.

 

[nnmartin]

Who is going to regulate, enforce, and control all this?
The government?
:biglaugh:

Sounds like you want your own form of Communism...

Yes, you are correct here.

But it will be Communism with a difference.

For a start there will be more freedom, incentives, and opportunities than the old versions.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think when we put other people down we gain a sense, however fleeting and illusionary, of ourselves being superior to them.

Finally, someone who understands.
There truly is a difference between those who start business, & those who are content to ask "Would you like fries wit dat?".

But it will be Communism with a difference.
For a start there will be more freedom, incentives, and opportunities than the old versions.

I'm sure it will work out that way.
Giving absolute power to leaders always results in benevolence & competence.

 

[Penumbra]

It is the result of the blind machine of capitalism.

Those who champion this system in all its free trade ugliness, must share some of the blame , yes.

It's not blind, and it's not a machine.

It's people.

Most retail outlets are run or subservient to large chain outlets these days so we do not have as much choice as you seem to be implying.

Not all of them.

Research can be done to find ones that are well-run or stand-alone, but most people don't take the time to.

 

[nnmartin]

It's not blind, and it's not a machine.

It's people.

Not all of them.

It's one of the blind faces of human consciousness.

We want, we buy, we don't want, we sell - but there is no overall guiding force, just the inhuman drive for profit and savings.

The outcome is left to the blind machine itself.

This has some advantages - increase in standard of living for some, material and technological progress for some.

The disadvantages of course are well documented - crime, corruption and arrogance.

And the disadvantages are always more powerful due to the inherent nature of greed being the strongest of them all.

 

[nnmartin]

Finally, someone who understands.
There truly is a difference between those who start business, & those who are content to ask "Would you like fries wit dat?".

do you really think that those who serve fries and the like are 'content' with their jobs?

some may be, yes, but most would move up the chain given the chance.

I'm sure it will work out that way.
Giving absolute power to leaders always results in benevolence & competence.

This depends on the system of course.

If you are referring to people like Stalin or Pol Pot then I agree - but this is in no way the guaranteed outcome.

We have moved on from those days and can create a system in which these kinds of power abuses can be avoided.

 

[Revoltingest]

do you really think that those who serve fries and the like are 'content' with their jobs?

I know many who do such work & make no effort to rise above their station.
"Content" is my word, but possibly not theirs.

some may be, yes, but most would move up the chain given the chance.

Chances are sometimes given, but the ambitious make their own chances.
People who don't believe this, don't understand this.

This depends on the system of course.
If you are referring to people like Stalin or Pol Pot then I agree - but this is in no way the guaranteed outcome.
We have moved on from those days and can create a system in which these kinds of power abuses can be avoided.

Moved on? Human beings never move on without bringing their faults with them.

 

[blackout]

Just give everyone 100 points at the end of the day and call it even.

(it's not like the money is actually worth anything anyway)

I vote no taxes, no inflation, no money.

Thank you.

 

[nnmartin]

Chances are sometimes given, but the ambitious make their own chances.
People who don't believe this, don't understand this.

Now this is also true to an extent, though only if you have the correct aptitude and will to make a profit regardless.

Why should those who are ambitious in a capitalist sense be more financially rewarded anyway?

In a lot of these cases the higher earners are not actually contributing to the productivity or betterment of society.

for instance you may be a landlord with many empty properties because not enough people can pay the rent.

How is this increasing the wealth of the nation?