Yeah you can. Let me correct you.
Lots of religions preach about peace. We can't debate that.
No we can't, but we also cannot debate that they engage in peace-preaching only some of the time, and that at other times, lots of religions preach the exact opposite.
Of course some followers interpret certain quotes differently and some pervert it but they do teach it. There's also plenty of verses in the Quran that specifically forbid force conversion and to live peacefully with disbelievers, treating your slaves well, not to torture, but I guess you conveniently ignored that. Or never bothered to read the Quran.
Quran (2:191-193) -
"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest]
is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah]
and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
Quran (2:244) -
"Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
Quran (2:216) -
"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Quran (3:56)
- "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
The above list contains a handful of verses in the Quran which justify violence; there are plenty more. Can you explain to me how these and other violence-advocating verses are "perversions"? And again with this. Why, why,
why do Islam's defenders assume that any contrary position must be based on one of ignorance? Why do they assume that those who don't blindly defend or celebrate Islam have never opened the Quran before? It's monstrous arrogance, given what's going on in the world right now.
It makes way more sense to look at the history behind the Quran, not just the Quran itself.
And, as I said, any arguments of temporal context are rendered mute by the fact that Muslims believe the Quran is true for all time.
Have you seriously never looked at what is happening in Burma? They are pretty corrupt and harsh towards non Buddhists, where some have been persecuted. In the past, there were times where Buddhists were harsh towards non Buddhists as well. I can bring that up to you as well. Is it as extensive? No, but there were times where they did it. Zoroastrians did, Hindus did as well. There's not too many religions that weren't corrupted in some way, by some people who wanted to twist it to suit their agenda.
Why the **** do the apologists of Islam (or of
any supremacist faith) lower themselves to playground levels of argument? Why do you do it?! It's infuriating because of how stupid & hypocritical it is. According to Islam, Buddhists, Hindus & Zoroastrians have rejected Allah's final messenger, thus they have rejected Allah himself as well as the morality he is the source of. Stating they are the immoral unbelievers with one breath and with the next using their actions to excuse the atrocities the morally enlightened Muslims commit is breath-taking hypocrisy.
[/QUOTE]It's really amazing that you willingly choose to go after Muslims, justify hating them and act like you're doing something right, and you're not even close. Muslims are not even the enemy. The terrorists are. But then, even the terrorists themselves are all just puppets being used.[/QUOTE]
No, not Muslims. Islam.
Islam. I don't know how many times I have to say it. Islam is the danger, Muslims are not necessarily so - it depends on how religious they are and in what way.
You never heard of The Lord's Resistance Army? Another terrorist group that claims to be Christian. They harmed innocents, even had sex slaves, even children? But I guess they don't count right, because they are not Muslim.
Okay, I'm going to stop you right there, especially since you're about to veer off into histrionics, and quote you this post of mine in another thread.
Have you never heard of
The Lord's Resistance Army,
The National Liberation Front of Tripura,
The Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of the Lord,
the Army of God and the wider
Christian Identity movement? And you clearly need to read up on how the British Empire treated those living in its colonies - especially Native Americans, First Nations & the Aborigines of Australia. Hell, read up on how the U.S. Government treats Natives living on reservations
these days.
These are Christian terrorist organisations which sprang up in the last few decades. And yes, Christians invaded Iraq; Dubya became (in)famous for saying
"God told me to invade Iraq".
This was in response to a Christian who claimed Christians hadn't committed atrocities for centuries. So yes, I am aware that there are Christian terrorist groups in the world. That doesn't change the fact that the majority of religious terrorism in the world these days comes from Muslims.
I think you need to know what an Islamic apologist is before you start spreading ignorant and asinine remarks.
An Islamic apologist is someone who constantly insists that Islam is a peaceful religion, that those who believe otherwise are ignorant and potentially racist or xenophobic. You've fulfilled the first two already. Go ahead, make my day and complete the set.
I not apologizing what the Muslim terrorists are doing. I know they are bad.
In that we're agreed. The difference between us is I'm willing to recognise the connection between belief and behaviour.
I'm just smart enough to know there's good and bad Muslims. Unlike you.
And where have I said that all Muslims are bad? You have my permission to quote any post I've made on this forum.
And you never bother ask yourselves why there are a lot of Muslim terrorists?
I'm pretty certain I've got the answer already. It's because they subscribe to a violently intolerant religion called Islam.
Because they are crazy and want to do it for no reason?
I don't think anyone has asserted that they do it for 'the lulz'. Martyrdom and eternal happiness in exchange for momentary pain are very real reasons for these people.
Oh they have reasons, horrible reasons and there is no justifying what they do, because they are ******** who hurt the innocent and should be punished, but there are reasons why they are doing it. You have many in the middle east, being led by quite a few corrupt individuals, who have their own agenda and pervert the teachings of the Quran, preaching the Quran, to people who will later become terrorists.
I'm going to refer to the list of Quranic verses I quoted previously and ask you again, how are these verses, lifted word for word from that book, a perversion of the Quran's teachings?
Many were poor, illiterate and not educated. What do you think is going to happen? Of course terrorism is going to breed. Poverty and ignorance can often breed crime.
I concur. The interesting thing, however, is the rising phenomenon of middle-class, well-educated Muslims from stable upbringings are joining terrorist organisations. It seems poverty and illiteracy aren't the only factors here.
Not everything's as it seems. There's also plenty of things you've never even thought about, let alone seen the things that actually happen in this world. There's plenty of stuff they do not report, or they just fabricate it. You never heard of false flags?
Yes, and in the vast majority of cases they're conspiracy theories with not a jot of evidence to support them. If you want to call Iraqi WMDs a false flag, however, I'd agree.
I couldn't care less what their religion is. They are terrorists. Punish them for being terrorists. Don't take the easy way out and blame all Muslims.
Okay, first off, I'm not doing that at all. You're just assuming I am because it allows you to build your arguments around a narrative you're more familiar with.
Secondly, the 'not all Muslims' argument sounds eerily familiar to 'not all men'. In fact it's so similar that the best rebuttal to 'not all men' applies equally to 'not all Muslims':
Yes, you're right. Not all Muslims. Definitely not all Muslims; but enough to give us genuine cause for concern. Take a look at this Facebook group. It's called
Sunni Defence Media Cell and right now it's advertising a Twitter trend calling for the execution of Asia Bibi, a Christian Pakistani who faces the death penalty for blasphemy. Look at the number of likes it has: over 104,000! That's a disconcerting number of Muslims liking a group which is calling for someone's murder. Yes, proportionately speaking it's a fraction of a fraction of the global Muslim population, but it's an awful lot of people regardless. So yes, not
all Muslims.
Extremist, fringe beliefs don't grow up or exist in a vacuum or in isolation. They perpetuate and continue to exist because plenty of what we would consider 'mainstream' Muslims hold similar or sympathising attitudes & beliefs. Extremists believe that those who leave Islam should be killed; does this mean that nations like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan and all those Muslim nations who treat apostasy as a capital crime are only full of extremist Muslims? How many people have to hold an extremist, fringe belief before it stops becoming fringe and starts becoming mainstream? It's an awfully nebulous line, isn't it? How many people in Bangladesh support the murder of secularist bloggers before the bloggers aren't being killed by extremists, but by mainstream Muslims? Is the sectarian attitude of Pakistani Sunnis towards Ahmadi Muslims a fringe belief or is it mainstream since most Pakistani Muslims seem to support it?
What's easy is not always right. In fact, a lot of the time, it isn't.
I said something in response to this but, on second thought, it was harsh and uncalled for and you didn't deserve it. I apologise.
There's the media, which I can tell has easily influenced you. Who runs the media? Most of them are people you never even heard of and have their own agenda? These are control freaks that want to run everything? What's the best way to reach people? The media? How do you rule a group of people? You divide and conquer. They are doing it with whites and blacks, as well as Muslims and Non-Muslims. And you're falling for it.
Regardless of what the media say: the proof is in the pudding. These people aren't pulling examples of Islam-justified intolerance & hatred out of their asses or out of thin air. They exist and the justifications exist in mainstream Islamic theology whether you want to admit it or not.
