A More Compassionate Response to Abortion

[We Never Know]

That is not what Ecc. 12:7 says.

I may have the verse wrong however it says here
"When the spirit, (breath of life) enters into the formed body, that person becomes a living soul."

When you die | Sampson Independent

 

[We Never Know]

I should have checked. You are right. I did a Google search on the quote provided and found the source:

When you die | Sampson Independent.

He conflated the verse with an introduction to it.

Yep. Thats where I saw it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I may have the verse wrong however it says here
"When the spirit, (breath of life) enters into the formed body, that person becomes a living soul."

When you die | Sampson Independent

I Google searched your post and it has this quote, which shows much more context. Look at the end of the first paragraph and the start of the second:

"
The question then becomes, how did we get here on earth? We all came from Adam and Adam came to earth as a result of Genesis 2:7. Genesis 2:7 says, “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breathe of life; and man became a living soul.” In other words the first man was formed with a body from the dust of the ground. Then God blew into that body a breath of life, which is the same as “spirit.” God blew into the nostrils of the body that He formed for Adam, the spirit of Adam, which came out of God. Since Adam, God now forms the body of all of us in our mothers womb and He breathes into the mothers womb, our individual spirits which comes out of Him. When the spirit, (breath of life) enters into the formed body, that person becomes a living soul.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 says tells us what happens when a person dies. It says, “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return to God who gave it.” In other words, when a person dies, his or her spirit goes back to God, the body returns to dust and the soul of that person no longer exist. That is why Job 27:3 says, “All the while my breathe is in me, and the spirit of God is my nostrils.”"

In his articles he does give a very good case for the soul being associated with breathing . In other words according to the Old Testament the soul enters with the first breath. But what you said was Ecclesiastes 12 7 was wrong. Before I clicked on the article the blurb that described it had the phrase along with that verse number. One should not quote from the blurbs. they are not the source. It was an honest mistake and easy to make.

 

[Fool]

That's not in the Bible. In fact we see the holy Spirit fills John the baptist even from his mother's womb according to Luke 1:15. In Luke 1:41 John in his mother's womb even leaps because of the presence of Mary the mother of Jesus. So we see that the holy Spirit was already in John in the womb or he wouldn't leap.

from his mother's womb means having opened the womb and been born. Gods spirit is what fills every living soul. So it's no big surprise that Elizabeth was filled with it. Otherwise, she'd have been dead. The only two options, choices are agreement with love, or selfishness. One cannot take care of another, if the 1st one is in survival mode. The 1st commandment is to love thyself, the 2nd is to love your neighbor. To love is the Law.

 

[Fool]

Ask os insist?

This is a horrible thread. The sorrow people have to endure on the road to hell of someone else's idea, belief of good intentions.

Sometime there is no good answer once an accident occurs, or mistake is made. Sometimes you just want to cry

 

[Fool]

I may have the verse wrong however it says here
"When the spirit, (breath of life) enters into the formed body, that person becomes a living soul."

When you die | Sampson Independent

there are two deaths. The physically dead and the mentally/spiritually dead. The spiritually dead do not know what they are talking about. They believe. Having awakened to Daniel's everlasting life through the spirit. Through the mental, consciousness. They overcome the veil. The resurrection of the spirit as quickening. The mental, mind, consciousness.

Revelation 2:11

The veil covers the subconscious from the conscious. Revelation = to uncover.

The 2nd death is the physical

Revelation 20:6

The harvest is here. The great supper upon us. Come gather together for to feast upon the dead.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

The harvest is here. The great supper upon us. Come gather together for to feast upon the dead.

 

[Colt]

Okay, but you just scoffed at the idea of a rape victim - Mary - getting an abortion.

Mary wasn’t a rape victim, she was the victim of myth spinning after her naturally conceived Son of “miraculous origins” became the focus of great attention at around 35 years old.

In my theology Joseph and Mary were married before conceiving Jesus, their first born.

 

[wellwisher]

It makes more sense, I think, to speak in terms of independence and viability. A woman can survive without the fetus in her womb. The fetus can't survive outside the mother's womb until they've reached a certain stage of development. A is dependent on B, B isn't dependent on A. The question is whether the state should be able to force B to keep A alive inside her own body against her will.

The main problem with this argument is a healthy new born baby also cannot survive own their own, without the help of the mother or others. Even an otherwise healthy three year old toddler, if abandoned, may not survive for long, once all the simple food stocks; chips and cookies, are gone. They cannot shop, cook, prepare food, or call out for pizza. They are too young for a credit card due to government regulations. In this case of abandonment, the state will come down hard on those who neglect their responsibility to help the youngest of the helpless.

There are a wide range of options that can prevent pregnancy and the need for abortion, from which a woman can choose. Women can still have sex for fun and profit, and not have to worry about abortion or not, using simple preparations. There is a compromise, where all sides can win. However, it requires awareness of these other options, and the willpower to choose from only these.

If you think about the battle of the sexes, sex and their sex appeal are the trump cards of women. Men will more often overvalue sex and sex appeal, due to their constant or daily hormonal drive. The female drive is also strong but more of a monthly cyclic that ebbs and flows. Because of that break, women have more clear head days to use sex to modify and even control male behavior; carrot and stick.

Women can use sex for fun and profit; dating and prostitution. This is why prostitution is often referred to as the oldest profession. The differences in hormonal cycles is also why many married men often complain about their sex life, declining, even after a few years of marriage. It also why women are often accused of using sex to climb the company ladder.

I can see how women want to keep this trump card as open as possible, without any restrictions. A pregnancy can become like a season ending injury for a star athlete. This can take women out of the game for a year or more. Men, out of respect, will usually modify their desire during female pregnancy. Try to go on a date at 5 month pregnant and see the reaction of men.

Abortion may be seen, by some women, as a form of sports medicine designed for a quick recovery before the playoffs. However, there are other ways to approach the game, as to limit these season ending injuries, such as better preparation before the game starts. The life of sports professionals is short and all seasons are precious, so new procedures will be needed to optimize all.

These battle of the sexes observation are usually unspoken, since nether team wishes to let the other know what they know. But a better understanding of how human nature works, can help make the game better and safer for all, including the unborn. Men will still be dogs, and the women can still leverage this. The game will still go on, but with less wild cards and season ending injuries.

Men are just as responsible for the current social climate about abortion. Many men are also good at the battle of the sexes game, and these male players do not wish to lose the star female players. Even married men worry about losing their dating wife, once the children come, since she will busy and tired and her affections will shift to the most needy of her family. Sex, even under good conditions, can become sparse for the male sex drive in large young family. Many of the shiny arguments that women use for abortion were developed by the male players; hustlers and lawyers, for their own stake in the game; fun or profit.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The main problem with this argument is a healthy new born baby also cannot survive own their own, without the help of the mother or others. Even an otherwise healthy three year old toddler, if abandoned, may not survive for long, once all the simple food stocks; chips and cookies, are gone. They cannot shop, cook, prepare food, or call out for pizza. They are too young for a credit card due to government regulations. In this case of abandonment, the state will come down hard on those who neglect their responsibility to help the youngest of the helpless.

There are a wide range of options that can prevent pregnancy and the need for abortion, from which a woman can choose. Women can still have sex for fun and profit, and not have to worry about abortion or not, using simple preparations. There is a compromise, where all sides can win. However, it requires awareness of these other options, and the willpower to choose from only these.

If you think about the battle of the sexes, sex and their sex appeal are the trump cards of women. Men will more often overvalue sex and sex appeal, due to their constant or daily hormonal drive. The female drive is also strong but more of a monthly cyclic that ebbs and flows. Because of that break, women have more clear head days to use sex to modify and even control male behavior; carrot and stick.

Women can use sex for fun and profit; dating and prostitution. This is why prostitution is often referred to as the oldest profession. The differences in hormonal cycles is also why many married men often complain about their sex life, declining, even after a few years of marriage. It also why women are often accused of using sex to climb the company ladder.

I can see how women want to keep this trump card as open as possible, without any restrictions. A pregnancy can become like a season ending injury for a star athlete. This can take women out of the game for a year or more. Men, out of respect, will usually modify their desire during female pregnancy. Try to go on a date at 5 month pregnant and see the reaction of men.

Abortion may be seen, by some women, as a form of sports medicine designed for a quick recovery before the playoffs. However, there are other ways to approach the game, as to limit these season ending injuries, such as better preparation before the game starts. The life of sports professionals is short and all seasons are precious, so new procedures will be needed to optimize all.

These battle of the sexes observation are usually unspoken, since nether team wishes to let the other know what they know. But a better understanding of how human nature works, can help make the game better and safer for all, including the unborn. Men will still be dogs, and the women can still leverage this. The game will still go on, but with less wild cards and season ending injuries.

Men are just as responsible for the current social climate about abortion. Many men are also good at the battle of the sexes game, and these male players do not wish to lose the star female players. Even married men worry about losing their dating wife, once the children come, since she will busy and tired and her affections will shift to the most needy of her family. Sex, even under good conditions, can become sparse for the male sex drive in large young family. Many of the shiny arguments that women use for abortion were developed by the male players; hustlers and lawyers, for their own stake in the game; fun or profit.

Too bad that you have no answer to the right of bodily autonomy. By the way, you really do need to prove when an embryo or fetus becomes a person to morally justify banning any abortions and you cannot even do that. The Bible even opposes you when it comes to that belief.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Too bad that you have no answer to the right of bodily autonomy. By the way, you really do need to prove when an embryo or fetus becomes a person to morally justify banning any abortions and you cannot even do that. The Bible even opposes you when it comes to that belief.

There should be no laws on the books regarding this. At least, not federal ones...

Laws aren't the solution, education like others have said on this thread, are the solution. As well as restructuring and/or an overhaul of the adoption and foster care systems as well as WIC and any other involved social programs so there is no purpose for the laws...

I'd pay more taxes if I was ensured females who were distraught with the idea of having to abort to make ends meet were going to be generously supported and prepared for the road ahead.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There should be no laws on the books regarding this. At least, not federal ones...

Laws aren't the solution, education like others have said on this thread, are the solution. As well as restructuring and/or an overhaul of the adoption and foster care systems as well as WIC and any other involved social programs so there is no purpose for the laws...

I'd pay more taxes if I was ensured females who were distraught with the idea of having to abort to make ends meet were going to be generously supported and prepared for the road ahead.

I agree. Perhaps the right to lifers should look at European countries where abortions are safe and legal but have much lower abortion rates. Why is that the case? I have known women in the position of finding that they are pregnant at a time where it would be devastating not only to them, but to their baby too if it was born. Women tend to get abortions because they see no other cure tot their problems.

 

[Ponder This]

if a person was pro-life, would it be a better response to offer someone who is considering abortion, financial and/or physical support? Then at the end of the pregnancy ask the person to release the newborn to either themselves, an adoption agency, or the state protective services?

how is forcing someone to have an unwanted and probably unplanned pregnancy going to ensure the longevity and well being of a potential person, a fetus?

when did controlling your neighbor, or trespassing against your neighbor become ok with the biblical commandment not to trespass?

is it OK to steal from peter to pay Paul, who may/may not be a fully formed and born individual?

Yes, the discussion obviously needs to open up on this issue. According to this article, How Many Couples are Waiting to Adopt a Baby?...

While it is difficult to find an exact, accurate number to answer this question, Some sources estimate that there are about 2 million couples currently waiting to adopt in the United States — which means there are as many as 36 waiting families for every one child who is placed for adoption.​

The demand for babies is a lot more than the availability of babies. Moreover, according to this article, What Percentage of Babies Put Up for Adoption Are Actually Adopted?...

around 62% of babies put up for adoption are adopted within the first month after birth​

However, a small percentage of children age out of the system and are never adopted. According to this article, Your Questions Answered About Children Waiting to Be Adopted...

Over 20,000 kids age out every year.​

 

[Fool]

Yes, the discussion obviously needs to open up on this issue. According to this article, How Many Couples are Waiting to Adopt a Baby?...

While it is difficult to find an exact, accurate number to answer this question, Some sources estimate that there are about 2 million couples currently waiting to adopt in the United States — which means there are as many as 36 waiting families for every one child who is placed for adoption.​

The demand for babies is a lot more than the availability of babies. Moreover, according to this article, What Percentage of Babies Put Up for Adoption Are Actually Adopted?...

around 62% of babies put up for adoption are adopted within the first month after birth​

However, a small percentage of children age out of the system and are never adopted. According to this article, Your Questions Answered About Children Waiting to Be Adopted...

Over 20,000 kids age out every year.​

https://www.genjustice.org/post/dis...-foster-care-every-year-how-to-end-the-crisis

 

[Left Coast]

The main problem with this argument is a healthy new born baby also cannot survive own their own, without the help of the mother or others.

"Help" is not the same as being literally physically inside and attached to a person's body. There's just a qualitative difference between those two things. On top of which, there is a difference between voluntarily choosing to be a parent or guardian of someone after they are born, and involuntarily getting pregnant.

So no, the two situations are not analogous.

In this case of abandonment, the state will come down hard on those who neglect their responsibility to help the youngest of the helpless.

That's correct, because when you take a baby home from the hospital you accept voluntary legal responsibility for them. Not so a pregnant mom and the embryo she may or may not know is even inside her, and didn't ask to be there.

There are a wide range of options that can prevent pregnancy and the need for abortion, from which a woman can choose.

It would be lovely if that were actually true. However social conservatives persistently fight the availability and awareness of those methods (contraception, comprehensive sex education, etc.) over and over again. They continue to do so to this day.

Women can still have sex for fun and profit, and not have to worry about abortion or not, using simple preparations. There is a compromise, where all sides can win. However, it requires awareness of these other options, and the willpower to choose from only these.

And another option is abortion.

If you think about the battle of the sexes, sex and their sex appeal are the trump cards of women. Men will more often overvalue sex and sex appeal, due to their constant or daily hormonal drive. The female drive is also strong but more of a monthly cyclic that ebbs and flows. Because of that break, women have more clear head days to use sex to modify and even control male behavior; carrot and stick.

This is a wildly antequated, inaccurate understanding of both male and female sex drives. Men are not wild beasts driven to uncontrollably ****. There need be no "battle" between sexes.

Women can use sex for fun and profit; dating and prostitution. This is why prostitution is often referred to as the oldest profession.

You're aware male prostitutes exist, yes?

I can see how women want to keep this trump card as open as possible, without any restrictions. A pregnancy can become like a season ending injury for a star athlete. This can take women out of the game for a year or more. Men, out of respect, will usually modify their desire during female pregnancy. Try to go on a date at 5 month pregnant and see the reaction of men.

Abortion may be seen, by some women, as a form of sports medicine designed for a quick recovery before the playoffs. However, there are other ways to approach the game, as to limit these season ending injuries, such as better preparation before the game starts. The life of sports professionals is short and all seasons are precious, so new procedures will be needed to optimize all.

These battle of the sexes observation are usually unspoken, since nether team wishes to let the other know what they know. But a better understanding of how human nature works, can help make the game better and safer for all, including the unborn. Men will still be dogs, and the women can still leverage this. The game will still go on, but with less wild cards and season ending injuries.

This is just a...bizarre analogy, that assumes all the worst, sexist tropes about women who act like Jezebels to sexually manipulate men, and paints men as helpless victims to feminine wiles.

Please get out more. Humans are more complicated than your caricatures.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

You're aware male prostitutes exist, yes?

I have a buddy who has been fairly down and out for the last 4 years or so... He and his girlfriend resorted to prostitution to make ends meet...
Trust me, they are two entirely different worlds... that of a male prostitute compared to a female prostitute.

I wonder... If there is as large of a market for males as there is for females in the foot fetish department? I wonder if chicks dig feet as much as dudes seem to...