A new religion?

[siti]

The stumbling blocks are church doctrine.

This is basically the same statment that started the Jehovah's Witness, LDS and Islam

And Christianity (Mark 7:13)...oh yes...and the Protestant Reformation...

 

[shunyadragon]

You are going to try and say this isn't usually true?

Usually true?!?!? No justification for your denigration and genetralization throwing stones at a word religion


As per the Baha'i thread - Even the Baha'i have murder in their past. The majority of the religions of Abraham obviously also do. In fact the majority of the better known religions have committed atrocities to further their ideas.

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As per what thread? Reference please and context of what you are calling murder. As far as I know of the Baha'i Faith has been more a victim of murder than the cause.

I previously cited references where religion and religious belief systems
are defined differently from your stock and trade Readers Digest version.

 

[Akivah]

I don't think another religion or religion at all is needed since I believe God has already given His word{s}

That bit is just what I believe

 

[sealchan]

After considerable study, I recently came to some conclusions which differ from what is being taught in many Christian churches, as far as I can tell. (I have been to Catholic, LDS, seventh day adventist, congregational, 2 different baptist, assembly of God, another unaffiliated pentacostal, and two nondenominational, so I have some church experiences)


I have concluded that most (possibly all?) churches are actual stumbling blocks for humanity to have a relationship with God.

Even though a few people inside the churches are able to reach a true relationship with God, the majority (the “many” in the words of the Lord) cannot, because of the stumbling blocks.


The stumbling blocks are church doctrine.

1. A trinity. A complex senseless formula to obfuscate what needs no explanation. God is God, period. God is not a person, He is God. The Lord is not a person. He is God and He is the Word. The Holy Spirit is not a person. It is God. The bible is not a holy book. It’s a book. It represents the Word. And the Word is God. That’s why the bible is a book. Because it is NOT God. The Word needs to be written on our hearts, then we know God.
2. The Lords death on a cross as a substitutionary sacrifice. They like to use the word propitiation. (It sounds authoritative, like trinity). God is not appeased through sacrifice. This should be obvious from the OT. If sacrifice appeased God, they would not have needed to do it over and over again. The Lord’s death was the end of His earthly body and the beginning of His glorified one. The Lord’s death is not a sacrifice. He didn’t die for our sins. If so, His righteousness is imputed to us. Not so.
3. Together with the above, many churches teach that one needs only to believe it is so, to have salvation. So, the belief in number 2 combined with number 3, is the secret formula for gaining salvation. This is a deception which causes many to stumble and actually never receive the salvation they are misled into thinking they have. The Lord made it perfectly clear when he walked the earth, what the true requirements are.
4. Justification by faith alone, through no works of our own. Another misleading concept, to assist the “many” in not finding the narrow path spoken of by the Lord. Seek to understand the entire Word, not just a few verses out of the bible, and one can readily see that there is something that must be DONE by us. And this is not performing church rituals. Not working at the food bank. Not ministering to prisoners. These are the works spoken of. No. What must we DO? The Lord said over and over, to repent and sin no more. Repentance is the first step, and continually practicing true heartfelt repentance for the rest of one’s life is what the Lord commands. So, yes, something must be done. Just a belief doesn’t cut it. And how do others know that you have a true relationship with the Lord? By your fruit. Which will be good, if you repent and sin no more. Without repentance the fruit is not good. (Even though the world may perceive some of it to be good)

The above, explains why I see so many lost souls in the church buildings. They’ve been misled, by false doctrines.



I will now relate a real life example. A woman who attended a certain small church (around 300 people), wrote a very mean gossipy story about someone in the church. She was planning to email it to another friend of hers in the church, when she accidentally sent it to her entire contact list (which included most of the people in the church). She didn’t realize her mistake until it got back to her from someone. What did she do?
She eventually went to another church. A much larger one. She started attending the women’s bible study group. She relayed the story and commented that she was upset that the woman to whom her email was about did not forgive her. She saw that what she did amounted to an “accident” because she hit the wrong button on her computer. The entire group tried to make the woman feel better by siding with her, and saying anyone can make an accident.
Only my wife pointed out that SHE was the person in error, and she should tell the other woman and everyone else that she was sorry.
The entire group looked at my wife like she had two heads. By the way, this woman in question was a lifelong Christian. There is something off when a whole group of people inside the church cannot tell the difference between right and wrong.


Anyway, bottom line.

I’ve designed a new religion. (Not really. These beliefs did not originate with me.)


Here is the doctrine:


God. There is one God, and he is God. God is perfect love, perfect mercy, perfect goodness, and perfect justice. His perfection requires no imperfect sacrifices. His justice requires no punishment. Oh, and God is not santa claus.


The Word. The Word is God. It’s not a book. Although, we can use a book (the bible and others too). We can use reason and intelligence. We can use science. These things are not our enemies. These things are all gifts of God. Given to us to use. Let us work together to get to know the Word more intimately.


The Word gives us perfect insight into how to have a peaceful, productive life on earth. It’s not complicated. We are told to love God with all our hearts. And also, to love our fellow human beings.
The fellow human being part is all inclusive. No one is left out. No matter what they have done, what they believe, or how different they are.


In order to accomplish the above, we must actively repent when we have wronged another person. This repentance must be CONTINUALLY practiced, and it must be from the heart. God, being omnipotent, will not be deceived. After repentance, we must do our best to sin no more.


We must not worry about our future. Not on this earth or afterward. God will provide for our needs on earth. We are His children, and He loves us greatly. God will take care of us through eternity as well. How that transpires will be effected by our actions in this life, relative to His commands of love for Him and love for all people.


There is a hell. But it is not an eternal punishment. Since God is love and justice, punishment has no place in His realm, and a being composed of perfect love could not produce a hell.
Hell, is that which we create for ourselves in this life when we do not follow His simple commandments.


The above is placed here for discussion. Not debate. I’ve heard the bible verses used for prooftexting, to support certain misguided beliefs. The same beliefs used to alienate and persecute so many of our fellow humans. Have a nice day. And may God bless one and all.

I'm not sure coming up with a new religion will solve the issue. What we have here is a common group dynamic among women. Commonly, though not entirely, women relate through a sort of group consensus. If a woman flat out contradicts that consensus, then the group doesn't know what to do. Men are more willing to have their various divided opinions and not want to form a consensus.

I'm not trying to say that all women and all men are X but the pattern tends to hold. But the "cooperative/consensus vs separative/contradictory" attitudes are two styles of psychological ego maintenance. I have seen this pattern in dreams and in the culture of dreamers I have mainly experienced the dreams associate this dichotomy to women and men respectively.

So your wife had enough of a confidence in her "masculine" side to state what she felt to be true despite the consensus. A religion that doesn't teach about personality style differences won't ever touch the confusion that occurred in the example you provided because this individual/group psychology will outweigh any philosophy that any group of "cooperatives" might meet to talk about.

 

[Ingledsva]

Usually true?!?!? No justification for your denigration and genetralization throwing stones at a word religion

Stating facts is not throwing stones. The history of most of the major religions of the world is out there for the reading.

As per the Baha'i thread - Even the Baha'i have murder in their past. The majority of the religions of Abraham obviously also do. In fact the majority of the better known religions have committed atrocities to further their ideas.

As per what thread? Reference please and context of what you are calling murder. As far as I know of the Baha'i Faith has been more a victim of murder than the cause.

I previously cited references where religion and religious belief systems are defined differently from your stock and trade Readers Digest version.

You can define them anyway you want, - however, - we have the histories. All of the religions of Abraham, and most of the other well know religions, have committed atrocities against people whom believed differently.

I can't remember the name of the thread. Anyone? It was the big one where we were discussing women not actually being fully equal in Baha'i, as they can't be in the top position.

I posted some info there about the Bab and his people's actions, Bahaullah and some of his people, the grabbing of the title away from the family etc. And an article which mentioned an assassination attempt by some Bahia's, etc.

*

 

[shunyadragon]

Stating facts is not throwing stones. The history of most of the major religions of the world is out there for the reading.

No facts!!!! Only your viral vindictive aggressive campaign against what you call religions. Yes, not only throwing stones, but chucking emotionally charged boulders.

You can define them anyway you want, - however, - we have the histories. All of the religions of Abraham, and most of the other well know religions, have committed atrocities against people whom believed differently.

False generalization with a personal hostile agenda. Actually the violence, and wars are very much a part of human history, and just blaming 'religions' is just justifying your emotionally charged vindictive agenda.,

I can't remember the name of the thread. Anyone? It was the big one where we were discussing women not actually being fully equal in Baha'i, as they can't be in the top position.

This is true, but not a matter of whether organized violence is committed by Baha'is against followers of other religions as with the other more ancient religions.

The principle in the Baha'i Faith is for social and legal equality of women in society. Actually there are more women in leadership positions in the Baha'i Faith than any other religion or church including the Baha'i Faith.

I posted some info there about the Bab and his people's actions, Bahaullah and some of his people, the grabbing of the title away from the family etc. And an article which mentioned an assassination attempt by some Bahia's, etc.

*

Selective citation of sources hostile to the Baha'i Faith trying to justify your hostile agenda. The assassination attempt was the single act of one individual against the ruler that was slaughtering Babi's, and not an organized act endorsed by the religion.

Nice emotional shotgun approach to dialogue when we simply disagree,

 

[Ingledsva]

No facts!!!! Only your viral vindictive aggressive campaign against what you call religions. Yes, not only throwing stones, but chucking emotionally charged boulders.

We have facts, history, and their own texts for most well know religions. Facts are Facts! They did awful things.

False generalization with a personal hostile agenda. Actually the violence, and wars are very much a part of human history, and just blaming 'religions' is just justifying your emotionally charged vindictive agenda.,

We are not talking outside wars. - We are discussing what religions actually did. Murder of the innocent, rape, murder of gay people, grabbing other people's land - saying God gave it to them - and murdering the owners, slavery, killing dissenters, rival groups, murdering people within other factions of the same religion, crusades, witch burning. The list goes on-and-on-and-on.

The principle in the Baha'i Faith is for social and legal equality of women in society. Actually there are more women in leadership positions in the Baha'i Faith than any other religion or church including the Baha'i Faith.

Yet they can not be at the top leading the Bahia. Your books make it plain that you want them to continue in traditional rolls first, and to bow to the male in an argument that they can't agree on. Where have we heard separate but equal before? It is not actually equal.

This is true, but not a matter of whether organized violence is committed by Baha'is against followers of other religions as with the other more ancient religions.

Selective citation of sources hostile to the Baha'i Faith trying to justify your hostile agenda. The assassination attempt was the single act of one individual against the ruler that was slaughtering Babi's, and not an organized act endorsed by the religion.

Nice emotional shotgun approach to dialogue when we simply disagree,

So say all religions when the magnifying glass is held to the not so savory parts of their histories.

*

 

[shunyadragon]

We have facts, history, and their own texts for most well know religions. Facts are Facts! They did awful things.

People do awful thing not religions. Ancient religions reflect the cultures of ancient people and yes they were violent, but the Baha'i Faith does not remotely advocate violence in the name of religion as ancient cultures did in the name of religion.

We are not talking outside wars. - We are discussing what religions actually did. Murder of the innocent, rape, murder of gay people, grabbing other people's land - saying God gave it to them - and murdering the owners, slavery, killing dissenters, rival groups, murdering people within other factions of the same religion, crusades, witch burning. The list goes on-and-on-and-on.

You cannot easily always separate 'outside wars?' with religious wars.

Yet they can not be at the top leading the Bahia. Your books make it plain that you want them to continue in traditional rolls first, and to bow to the male in an argument that they can't agree on. Where have we heard separate but equal before? It is not actually equal.

This makes not sense. By the way it is Baha'i not Bahia (a geographic name).

So say all religions when the magnifying glass is held to the not so savory parts of their histories.

*

All fallible human beings when held under the magnifying glass are not so savory in their history., but If you hold them under the magnifying glass long enough they may taste better.

 

[Ingledsva]

People do awful thing not religions. Ancient religions reflect the cultures of ancient people and yes they were violent, but the Baha'i Faith does not remotely advocate violence in the name of religion as ancient cultures did in the name of religion.

You cannot easily always separate 'outside wars?' with religious wars.

This makes not sense. By the way it is Baha'i not Bahia (a geographic name).

All fallible human beings when held under the magnifying glass are not so savory in their history., but If you hold them under the magnifying glass long enough they may taste better.

ALL religions are MADE-UP of, and by, fallible humans.

And how exactly does it not make sense, - when you say women are equal in Baha'i, but your books say a woman CAN NOT be at the top of the religion, in the law making area, the UHJ. They are expected to still fulfill traditional rolls, and if an argument between male and female cannot be settled, - she is to bow to the male's side.

The argument you folks put forward is - separate but equal, - which we have seen in other cases, such as with black people in America.

Separate but equal, - is NOT actually equal, as has been shown over and over.

It is not equal if they cannot be in the UHJ, and when against something, in argument with a male, must bow to the male in final argument.

And Soylent Green.

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[shunyadragon]

ALL religions are MADE-UP of fallible humans.

The sky is Carolina Blue at noon on a clear day on the 4th of July.

MADE-UP by humans?

An assertion on your part by a hostile agenda.

And how exactly does it not make sense, - when you say women are equal in Baha'i, but your books say a woman CAN NOT be at the top of the religion, in the law making area, the UHJ. They are expected to still fulfill traditional rolls, and if an argument between male and female cannot be settled, - she is to bow to the male's side.

Misrepresentation of the Baha'i Faith by a hostile agenda.

The argument you folks put forward is - separate but equal, - which we have seen in other cases, such as with black people in America. Separate but equal, - is NOT actually equal, as has been shown over and over.

No. your still in your shotgun rampage of hostility against your generalization of religions..

 

[Ingledsva]

...

And how exactly does it not make sense, - when you say women are equal in Baha'i, but your books say a woman CAN NOT be at the top of the religion, in the law making area, the UHJ. They are expected to still fulfill traditional rolls, and if an argument between male and female cannot be settled, - she is to bow to the male's side.

Misrepresentation of the Baha'i Faith by a hostile agenda.

The argument you folks put forward is - separate but equal, - which we have seen in other cases, such as with black people in America. Separate but equal, - is NOT actually equal, as has been shown over and over.

It is not equal if they cannot be in the UHJ, and when against something, in argument with a male, must bow to the male in final argument.

No. your still in your shotgun rampage of hostility against your generalization of religions....

Instead of the "hostile" crap, - explain how I am wrong, - when that is what YOUR Baha'i books say!

So, - You are telling us, - that YOU would consider YOURSELF equal - if YOU males were told you could not be in the law making Universal House of Justice of your religion, and in an argument which can't be settled - the WOMAN's view is always the final answer, and not you males?

BALONEY! You would not consider yourselves equal, - because you obviously would NOT be, and so it is with the same, for women. Women are Not actually equal under Baha'i.

Baha'i have made good strides, - but want to ultimately maintain a patriarchal hold on the religion. No women in the UHJ.

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[shunyadragon]

Instead of the "hostile" crap, - explain how I am wrong, - when that is what YOUR Baha'i books say!

So, - You are telling us, - that YOU would consider YOURSELF equal - if YOU males were told you could not be in the law making Universal House of Justice of your religion, and in an argument which can't be settled - the WOMAN's view is always the final answer, and not you males?

BALONEY! You would not consider yourselves equal, - because you obviously would NOT be, and so it is with the same, for women. Women are Not actually equal under Baha'i.

Phffft! Plop!!

Baha'i have made good strides, - but want to ultimately maintain a patriarchal hold on the religion. No women in the UHJ.

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You get on an emotional shotgun rant against everything that you object to concerning what you put in a box and call religions and religious belief, which is not constructive. This attitude most definitely justifies my objection to you 'throwing stones' when you disagree with another's religion.

As far as accusations that Baha'is advocate or were involved in organized 'murder' is slanderous and without foundation. Individuals may murder, or attempt assassination?, but nowhere in the Baha'i writings are there any references that advocate these actions.

 

[Ingledsva]

Phffft! Plop!!

You get on an emotional shotgun rant against everything that you object to concerning what you put in a box and call religions and religious belief, which is not constructive. This attitude most definitely justifies my objection to you 'throwing stones' when you disagree with another's religion.

As far as accusations that Baha'is advocate or were involved in organized 'murder' is slanderous and without foundation. Individuals may murder, or attempt assassination?, but nowhere in the Baha'i writings are there any references that advocate these actions.

LOL! It is funny how often MEN use the word - EMOTIONAL - against women - when they don't like the FACTS women are telling them!

Grow up!

You can call the murder accusations, etc., slanderous all you want. The accusations and news stories are out there.

Expecting full equal rights, is not - getting emotional. Just ask black MEN! Were they getting emotional because they expected full equality?

You folks push women's equality in your religion as a selling point - when in reality - women can't be in the true governing body - making law. You keep patriarchal rule by doing thus. That is just a fact.

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[shunyadragon]

LOL! It is funny how often MEN use the word - EMOTIONAL - against women - when they don't like the FACTS women are telling them!

Grow up!

You can call the murder accusations, etc., slanderous all you want. The accusations and news stories are out there.

Expecting full equal rights, is not - getting emotional. Just ask black MEN! Were they getting emotional because they expected full equality?

You folks push women's equality in your religion as a selling point - when in reality - women can't be in the true governing body - making law. You keep patriarchal rule by doing thus. That is just a fact.

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Wowssers this one is over the top emotional par excellence!

 

[Ingledsva]

Wowssers this one is over the top emotional par excellence!

LOL! Keep going! Show us your true self!

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