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A Question About Taoism
- Thread starter Quakerguy
- Start date
Dang! :thud:
Yes. One can be an anarchist, like Chuang Tzu, I guess.
Tao Te Ching
Yes. One can be an anarchist, like Chuang Tzu, I guess.
Tao Te Ching
Chapter 17
The highest rulers, people do not know they have them
The next level, people love them and praise them
The next level, people fear them
The next level, people despise them
If the rulers' trust is insufficient
Have no trust in them
Proceeding calmly, valuing their words
Task accomplished, matter settled
The people all say, "We did it naturally"
The highest rulers, people do not know they have them
The next level, people love them and praise them
The next level, people fear them
The next level, people despise them
If the rulers' trust is insufficient
Have no trust in them
Proceeding calmly, valuing their words
Task accomplished, matter settled
The people all say, "We did it naturally"
Taoism isn't about politics, really. Confucianism is about politics. Taoism and Confucianism are diametrically opposed. Taoism is, in the most simplistic sense, about being one with the "order of things", the Tao, the Way... "going with the flow", not forcing the issue. It's much more than that, but that's the down and dirty. Taoism isn't apathetic either.
Tao Te Ching
Chapter 60
Ruling a large country is like cooking a small fish
Using the Tao to manage the world
Its demons have no power
Not only do its demons have no power
Its gods do not harm people
Not only do its gods not harm people
The sages also do not harm people
They both do no harm to one another
So virtue merges and returns
Ruling a large country is like cooking a small fish
Using the Tao to manage the world
Its demons have no power
Not only do its demons have no power
Its gods do not harm people
Not only do its gods not harm people
The sages also do not harm people
They both do no harm to one another
So virtue merges and returns
DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
Like they have said, Taoism doesn't have anything inherently to do with political ideals.
If there is a principle way in which the cosmos functions, being in accord with that way is the most ideal thing. Naturally, since it's the way that the whole cosmos functions, all aspects of the cosmos, including government, can go along with it or fight the current.
If there is a principle way in which the cosmos functions, being in accord with that way is the most ideal thing. Naturally, since it's the way that the whole cosmos functions, all aspects of the cosmos, including government, can go along with it or fight the current.
Alceste
Vagabond
Sure, just not a pushy one.
Actually, yes.
Tao Te Ching 36
Chapter 36
If one wishes to shrink it
One must first expand it
If one wishes to weaken it
One must first strengthen it
If one wishes to discard it
One must first promote it
If one wishes to seize it
One must first give it
This is called subtle clarity
The soft and weak overcomes the tough and strong
Fish cannot leave the depths
The sharp instruments of the state
Cannot be shown to the people
If one wishes to shrink it
One must first expand it
If one wishes to weaken it
One must first strengthen it
If one wishes to discard it
One must first promote it
If one wishes to seize it
One must first give it
This is called subtle clarity
The soft and weak overcomes the tough and strong
Fish cannot leave the depths
The sharp instruments of the state
Cannot be shown to the people
I don't know. Political parties probably wouldn't have made much sense to Ancient "Daoists". This is due to their tendency for imposing a herd mentality across a diversity of perspectives and detaching power from the original inner source. It doesn't even really seem compatible with American libertarianism with its emphasis on glorifying hyper-individuality. Daoist thought approaches limited government from an acknowledgment and appreciation for natural diversity and virtue ethics.
Last edited:
Mike D Larx
New Member
Hi all,
I'm new here and will attempt an answer anyway. I looked up the other topic "what is libertarian" first and it seemed to describe a society where rules of law and moral codes are unnecessary. This could only be possible in an "enlightened" society where the members are no longer ruled by egotism.
I have had enough experience of "communes" and political idealism to believe that such experiments will inevitably fail while the members remain in the grip of their illusions.
Taoism is in my view saying exactly the same things as did Jesus, except that each says it in their own language and style. Regarding how to live "spiritually" within a society Jesus' advice was to "render to Ceaser what is Ceaser's and to God what is God's."
I don't know what it means to be a Taoist, I imagine for instance that I am a person who is inspired and educated by the beautiful and wise writing of the Tao Te Ching, (among other great teachers), but I would not say that I was a Taoist.
Cheers Mike
Alceste
Vagabond
Welcome to RF. For future reference, the DIR (discuss individual religions) sections are for adherents of that specific religion to discuss the religion with each other. If you're not a taoist, you should stick to asking respectful questions about taoism rather than making statements. To express your own opinions, try the christianity DIR or general discussion.
It's OK, in green DIRs a non-member can make comments from their own experience that have bearing on the DIR. Rule # 10 Religious Education Forum - FAQ: vBulletin FAQ has been modified:
10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums/Same Faith Debates/"Only Sections"
(snipped for space)
-For any DIR or discussion sub-forum that is colored green, non-members of that area may make respectful posts that comply with the tenets and spirit of that area. This includes questions, as well as knowledgeable comments. ...
(snipped for space)
10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums/Same Faith Debates/"Only Sections"
(snipped for space)
-For any DIR or discussion sub-forum that is colored green, non-members of that area may make respectful posts that comply with the tenets and spirit of that area. This includes questions, as well as knowledgeable comments. ...
(snipped for space)
Alceste
Vagabond
Oh right! I got it mixed up with that other colour. Blue, is it?
Sorry about that. Carry on.
Blue and purple are the ones to refrain from making comments in if you're not a member, but respectful questions there are OK.
Alceste
Vagabond
Thanks for the clarification.
Most welcome. 
Mike D Larx
New Member
Hi all,
Thanks for the clarifications also, I could not originally find what DIR meant and now I know. Also I couldn't figure out the rule about colored topics, but now I have a better idea.
Could someone tell me what does it mean to be a Taoist, as I did not know that it constituted a religion. Also I can't find where to subscribe for email notification of a topic.
Cheers Mike
Thanks for the clarifications also, I could not originally find what DIR meant and now I know. Also I couldn't figure out the rule about colored topics, but now I have a better idea.
Could someone tell me what does it mean to be a Taoist, as I did not know that it constituted a religion. Also I can't find where to subscribe for email notification of a topic.
Cheers Mike
Taoism isn't necessarily a religion as much as a philosophy. The religious aspect grew out of Chinese traditional (folk) religion, incorporating traditional deities into Taoist philosophy. Before reading the Tao Te Ching, I'd suggest reading The Tao of Pooh. It's a light-hearted explanation of Taoism based on Winnie the Pooh, who is probably the ultimate Taoist. Here is a great link Portal:Taoism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
At the top of the post you should see a button that says "Thread Tools" which brings down a dropdown menu that has the option "Subscribe to this thread". That will take you to another page where you can choose email notification or not.
Mike D Larx
New Member
Hi all,
Thanks Jainarayan and Dreadfish for your helpful replies and advice.
This may not be the place to ask more questions especially as they don't strictly relate to the original question by Quakerguy, but I have to start somewhere. I get the impression that brief statements only are the norm on this forum, and I'm wondering if that encourages learning?
Jainarayan, I am very familiar with the Tao Te Ching, my interpretation being that of Stephen Mitchell, 1988, and I think that in order to truly understand it one needs to be very far along the path to realization/enlightenment. Am I talking with people who are in that position, or is it not the case or appropriate for the RF forum and this topic?
I have made statements in my introduction and in my initial reply on this topic to the effect that rather than asking questions about spiritual matters, I am in a position to answer, or discuss them at depth, but without response; (to the spiritual statements that is, whereas my computer skills are not great.)
I do realize that this is a RELIGIOUS forum rather than a SPIRITUAL one and so it may not be the place for me as I have no wish to be part of a religion. (I need to say also that I am not here to ridicule or denigrate any religion.)
Cheers Mike
Thanks Jainarayan and Dreadfish for your helpful replies and advice.
This may not be the place to ask more questions especially as they don't strictly relate to the original question by Quakerguy, but I have to start somewhere. I get the impression that brief statements only are the norm on this forum, and I'm wondering if that encourages learning?
Jainarayan, I am very familiar with the Tao Te Ching, my interpretation being that of Stephen Mitchell, 1988, and I think that in order to truly understand it one needs to be very far along the path to realization/enlightenment. Am I talking with people who are in that position, or is it not the case or appropriate for the RF forum and this topic?
I have made statements in my introduction and in my initial reply on this topic to the effect that rather than asking questions about spiritual matters, I am in a position to answer, or discuss them at depth, but without response; (to the spiritual statements that is, whereas my computer skills are not great.)
I do realize that this is a RELIGIOUS forum rather than a SPIRITUAL one and so it may not be the place for me as I have no wish to be part of a religion. (I need to say also that I am not here to ridicule or denigrate any religion.)
Cheers Mike