Yeah.. that's kinda the point.
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A question for atheists who don't believe in God
- Thread starter Willamena
- Start date
On what authority do you restrict the class of atheists to those who claim to know that there is no God? I certainly make no such claim.
kai
ragamuffin
What is God? personally i have no idea .
what i can reject outright or be skeptical of though is other peoples idea of God, or the ultimate truth as expressed by others that has up to now been unacceptable to me.
I cannot say for certain there is no god in any shape or form because i simply do not know, to say i do know would make my position no better than the others i reject.
what i can reject outright or be skeptical of though is other peoples idea of God, or the ultimate truth as expressed by others that has up to now been unacceptable to me.
I cannot say for certain there is no god in any shape or form because i simply do not know, to say i do know would make my position no better than the others i reject.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Don't put words in my mouth just so you can have something to make one of your stupid comments about. I never said that, and I would never say that.
Women_Of_Reason
Mystery Lover
I do not believe in any preconceived ideas that deals with the birth, meaning or purpose of the Universe.
I believe that one must enquire the World before making any assertion about it.
An incredible claim requires an incredible evidence, as the maxim tells it.
People who tells me that they know how and why the universe exists are making, in my opinion, an incredible claim about the very nature of... Nature. I have yet to see or hear about their incredible evidence.
Maybe that someone here as this extraordinary explanation about this fundamental question...
I believe that one must enquire the World before making any assertion about it.
An incredible claim requires an incredible evidence, as the maxim tells it.
People who tells me that they know how and why the universe exists are making, in my opinion, an incredible claim about the very nature of... Nature. I have yet to see or hear about their incredible evidence.
Maybe that someone here as this extraordinary explanation about this fundamental question...
Nade
Godless Skeptic
Precisely.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Many things are being researched at the moment, but then there is quite a lot that we know. Big-bang is a near certainty.
Women_Of_Reason
Mystery Lover
What does the big bang have to do with anything? If you think that the big bang as something to do with the creation of the universe I would suggest that you learn a thing or 2 about it.
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Diederick
Active Member
What I don't believe in. And what is god. Two different questions.
I don't believe in anything that contradicts reality; reality meaning everything that I have found to be empirically established truth. I also don't believe in things that cannot be proven or disproved by science, and that divert from lying parallel to what is proven and what I expect to be proven in the future - or at least accept as considerably likely to be true when improvable.
In other words: I believe what can be proven by logic, observation and testing; and I believe in everything that can be reasonably derived from those facts. Everything supernatural evades this trajectory of established reality, not only creating a completely new and fantastic proposition, but also challenging what is already established.
God, to me, is a preposterous suggestion, and quite uncomfortable to imagine. Especially the gods that are supposed to be omnipotent, are near impossible to imagine - absolutely impossible to imagine in any greater detail. It has caused me headaches :areyoucra pondering about omnipotence, nowadays I don't bother. (It's not very useful to do, would you consider trying it.) This alone makes the concept of god utter lunacy to me, it is simply impossible that any of the gods that are described in any religion is omnipotent. But of course god is all veiled in mystery, and we're not supposed to understand. "Of course", the people who imagined god were just as incapable of imagining god as I am, so they couldn't but let it hang.
God quite certainly doesn't exist - god is very improbable, if you prefer a less direct approach. Besides that obviousness, there is the consideration which of the two 'theories' is more likely to be true:
Reality:... gives us very limited information, but that information is most likely true, is empirically proven to be fact and can theoretically be reproduced at any time in this world. When presented to God, it is either made to fit, or rejected entirely. It is asked that we accept a large void of (yet) unanswerable questions, but at least all the information makes complete sense when laid beside each other (a.k.a. the laws of physics). Reality can be harsh, because it proves our lives to be temporal, and gives no comfort but the cold hard facts it always gives. Debates on facts of Reality are usually among educated people, tend to be very peaceful and actually constructive, and are primarily settled by victory of logic based on other mutually accepted facts of Reality.
God:... gives us a lot of information, though leaving a convenient amount out. Religious facts are based on ancient texts or modern psychics or other spiritual people; by extreme exception given directly by God; and doesn't make any sense when presented to Reality. It paints a superficially simple-to-understand world, though when unveiled it tends to become much more complex than the world of Reality, not making much sense at all. God, unlike its opposite, not only provides 'facts', but also provides orders or guidelines, and usually has a wish-list. It is, by its totalitarian nature, an individual inconsistent force behind nature, that can not only split oceans and make crops grow, but also comforts sad people and is believed to be the creator of the world. God is known as a singular but also as a plural. The different interpretations cannot coincide and are usually hostile toward each other.
Take your pick. I think, social stresses left aside, that this is essentially the consideration at hand.
I don't believe in anything that contradicts reality; reality meaning everything that I have found to be empirically established truth. I also don't believe in things that cannot be proven or disproved by science, and that divert from lying parallel to what is proven and what I expect to be proven in the future - or at least accept as considerably likely to be true when improvable.
In other words: I believe what can be proven by logic, observation and testing; and I believe in everything that can be reasonably derived from those facts. Everything supernatural evades this trajectory of established reality, not only creating a completely new and fantastic proposition, but also challenging what is already established.
God, to me, is a preposterous suggestion, and quite uncomfortable to imagine. Especially the gods that are supposed to be omnipotent, are near impossible to imagine - absolutely impossible to imagine in any greater detail. It has caused me headaches :areyoucra pondering about omnipotence, nowadays I don't bother. (It's not very useful to do, would you consider trying it.) This alone makes the concept of god utter lunacy to me, it is simply impossible that any of the gods that are described in any religion is omnipotent. But of course god is all veiled in mystery, and we're not supposed to understand. "Of course", the people who imagined god were just as incapable of imagining god as I am, so they couldn't but let it hang.
God quite certainly doesn't exist - god is very improbable, if you prefer a less direct approach. Besides that obviousness, there is the consideration which of the two 'theories' is more likely to be true:
Reality:... gives us very limited information, but that information is most likely true, is empirically proven to be fact and can theoretically be reproduced at any time in this world. When presented to God, it is either made to fit, or rejected entirely. It is asked that we accept a large void of (yet) unanswerable questions, but at least all the information makes complete sense when laid beside each other (a.k.a. the laws of physics). Reality can be harsh, because it proves our lives to be temporal, and gives no comfort but the cold hard facts it always gives. Debates on facts of Reality are usually among educated people, tend to be very peaceful and actually constructive, and are primarily settled by victory of logic based on other mutually accepted facts of Reality.
God:... gives us a lot of information, though leaving a convenient amount out. Religious facts are based on ancient texts or modern psychics or other spiritual people; by extreme exception given directly by God; and doesn't make any sense when presented to Reality. It paints a superficially simple-to-understand world, though when unveiled it tends to become much more complex than the world of Reality, not making much sense at all. God, unlike its opposite, not only provides 'facts', but also provides orders or guidelines, and usually has a wish-list. It is, by its totalitarian nature, an individual inconsistent force behind nature, that can not only split oceans and make crops grow, but also comforts sad people and is believed to be the creator of the world. God is known as a singular but also as a plural. The different interpretations cannot coincide and are usually hostile toward each other.
Take your pick. I think, social stresses left aside, that this is essentially the consideration at hand.
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Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
Funny....If you ever get the chance to talk to one of our friends in the spirit world they'll tell you there is no such thing as "God". Even "ghosts" are atheists.
That is why I am an Animist, for I believe in things are known to exist. What I believe in is the "animate force" that is the vibrational force that is in all energy that makes things move. It is that vibrational force that is in all things is what I consider to be the "spirit". I do not believe in anything "supernatural". Everything that exists is energy in many different forms. Humans have a very limited perception. We don't know everything that exists out there in the vast Universe, but we can for certain say that whatever IS out there is most likely going to be just another form of energy waiting to be discovered.
That is why I am an Animist, for I believe in things are known to exist. What I believe in is the "animate force" that is the vibrational force that is in all energy that makes things move. It is that vibrational force that is in all things is what I consider to be the "spirit". I do not believe in anything "supernatural". Everything that exists is energy in many different forms. Humans have a very limited perception. We don't know everything that exists out there in the vast Universe, but we can for certain say that whatever IS out there is most likely going to be just another form of energy waiting to be discovered.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Funny....If you ever get the chance to talk to one of our friends in the spirit world they'll tell you there is no such thing as "God". Even "ghosts" are atheists.
So ghosts are known to exist, yet god is not?
I find the arguement funny. I keep seeing atheists state how they believe. Which implys that they think not know. Not one atheist states how they know there is no god.
What is the difference if you believe there is no god or if you believe there is a god as long as you don't know you are not correct.
What is the difference if you believe there is no god or if you believe there is a god as long as you don't know you are not correct.
Diederick
Active Member
I should dig deeper into your religion. I have a friend on the net who is very much into the same thing. Perhaps you're familiar with him or could light up (not in flames, as in 'illuminate') a thing or two for me? Traditional Indigenous American Values I've always had a special something for the native Americans, I just never seem to have gotten around to exploring it further.Funny....If you ever get the chance to talk to one of our friends in the spirit world they'll tell you there is no such thing as "God". Even "ghosts" are atheists.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I can't speak for others, but I will not make the claim that I "know" there is no god(s), because this would be an unscientific statement - it would be as unsupportable as asserting that I *did* believe in god(s).
You keep making the false statement that atheists "believe there is no god" - it is correct to say that we simply "do not believe in gods". If you are capable of understanding the difference, then you will understand the answer to your own question.
Diederick
Active Member
There is a thing called probability. I can't say I'm certain there is no God, the same way I can't say I'm certain I am alive. Everything can be doubted, and with enough imagination, twisted into something completely different. What is real? How do we know what is real and what is not real? The Matrix (movie) is a perfect example of how you can doubt practically everything. This leaves us with mere probability, of considering things to be true or not true, real or unreal.
I don't know there is no God. I think it is most unlikely that there is.
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
That is correct. Many people have actually encountered "ghosts" and spirits and those people "know" them to exist as do I. However, I do not personally know of anyone who has encountered "God". If there was anyone who thought they had encountered or witnessed "God", it was probably just another spirit they witnessed and not a "divine creator". But that's just my opinion. I don't believe in any gods. I do believe in the "animate force" or energy that exists in the Universe. Call it whatever you want, vibrational force or whatever, I just call it "spirit" or "anima". It is just another perspective. Scientists know this...there are things out there that they can not explain as of yet, but what they do know is that it will undoubtedly be just another form of energy. That is all I believe, I suppose I just have a different way of labeling things.
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If I was an atheist there is a way to prove that I am correct. Atheists do not believe in a god so life had to start someway and with all the science that we have, you would think the answer would be there for those who wanted it. Only by God would you not be able to find the answer. He may not want you to know.
In summary if there is an answer and I know there is an Atheist should be able to find it provided there really is no god.
Isn't that the easy way out. Have you really tried to find an answer or just based on an uncertain belief we are supposed to eliminate all religions when there is a probability that one is right.