A question for Christians

[Muhktar]

If Jesus is an embodiment of God, then his word should be obeyed, right?

Then why is it Christians will for example, eat pork?

Jesus said when he came "I am not here to change the ways of Judaism, I follow Moses", didn't he?


Now I know Paul claimed 'revelations', but why, if Jesus is so important, would you follow what Paul says if it contradicts Jesus himself?


Forgive me if I have gotten something wrong here, I do not know too much of Christianity.

 

[esmith]

Not all Christians eat pork. Those of the Seventh Day Adventist faith still follow the command not to eat pork. I think other Christians find relief from this law as per the following link:
Why Christians Eat Pork

I think it is because when they were converting non-Christians there were a lot of pig farmers and the general populace was eating pork, plus other forbidden foods and it was easier to convert them if they ignored the restriction.

 

[Muhktar]

I think it is because when they were converting non-Christians there were a lot of pig farmers and the general populace was eating pork, plus other forbidden foods and it was easier to convert them if they ignored the restriction.

Ah, so was it kind of like a case of "Well not many are going to convert, so lets just change what God wants to make these people happy."?

Also thank you for the note on the Seventh Day Adventists.

 

[InChrist]

If Jesus is an embodiment of God, then his word should be obeyed, right?

Then why is it Christians will for example, eat pork?

Jesus said when he came "I am not here to change the ways of Judaism, I follow Moses", didn't he?


Now I know Paul claimed 'revelations', but why, if Jesus is so important, would you follow what Paul says if it contradicts Jesus himself?


Forgive me if I have gotten something wrong here, I do not know too much of Christianity.

There is no contradiction between the words of Jesus and the words of Paul. Jesus came to fulfill the laws given by God to Moses. Jesus perfectly met the requirements of the law, something which no other human could do. I believe this is only possible because Jesus was God in the flesh and only God in human flesh was capable of living a perfect life. This is why the message of the New Testament is grace, not works. When a person puts their faith in Christ as Savior then His perfect life and fulfillment of the law is accounted to that individual.

One's life then becomes a matter of living in a relationship with Christ rather than a set of laws or rules. One who loves and desires to please the Lord will seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit in various situations. For example: a sincere Christian would probably not purposely eat or serve pork when a Muslim or Jewish person is present who would be offended. On the other hand, if a Christian is invited to dinner and served pork they are free to be polite and eat it. They are also free to eat any meat if it is received with thanksgiving. The kingdom of God is not about food and drink, but about loving God and others before self. The laws were given to Israel for specific reasons, one being to show that everyone falls short and is not capable of keeping all the laws all the time; therefore the need for a Savior. The gospel and teaching of the New Testament is liberty and freedom from the bondage of sin and laws into a life transformed by Christ.

 

[Pegg]

If Jesus is an embodiment of God, then his word should be obeyed, right?

Then why is it Christians will for example, eat pork?

Jesus said when he came "I am not here to change the ways of Judaism, I follow Moses", didn't he?

Yes he did because Jesus was a jew born under the mosaic law and as such he was obligated to follow that law. All jews born under law were born into that covenant with God.

Now I know Paul claimed 'revelations', but why, if Jesus is so important, would you follow what Paul says if it contradicts Jesus himself?
Forgive me if I have gotten something wrong here, I do not know too much of Christianity.

Paul does not contradict Jesus for Jesus never stated that all mankind would be required to adhere to the mosaic law forever.

What Jesus did state was that he was making a new covenant with his apostles.
Paul was not present when Jesus instituted the new covenant, it is recorded in the gospel accounts and repeated by the Apostles in the book of Acts.
Luke 22:19 Also, he (Jesus) took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” 20 Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in YOUR behalf"

Shortly before his death, Jesus also gave an indication that the mosaic system was nearing its end when he commented on the state of natural Isreal and their lack of faithfulness to God.
Matthew 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But YOU people did not want it. 38 Look! YOUR house is abandoned to YOU

And at Jeremiah 31:31-34, God specifically foretold that he himself would make a new covenant with his people. The apostle Paul quotes this scripture at Hebrews 8:8-13, which shows that Paul appreciated that, strictly speaking, God originated this divine covenant.
It was when God began to give holy spirit and powerful works to gentile christians, the apostles came to realize that observance of the mosiac law was not a requirement to receive Gods approval.

In Acts 10:9-35, the account about Peter and Cornelius (the first gentile christian) explains how God removed the necessity of obedience to the Mosaic law code. I've cut it down, but you can read the entire account to get the full picture.
"... Peter went up to the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 10 But he became very hungry and wanted to eat. While they were preparing, he fell into a trance 11 and beheld heaven opened and some sort of vessel descending like a great linen sheet being let down by its four extremities upon the earth; 12 and in it there were all sorts of four-footed creatures and creeping things of the earth and birds of heaven. 13 And a voice came to him: “Rise, Peter, slaughter and eat!” 14 But Peter said: “Not at all, Lord, because never have I eaten anything defiled and unclean.” 15 And the voice [spoke] again to him, the second time: “You stop calling defiled the things God has cleansed.” ...19 As Peter was going over in his mind about the vision, the spirit said: “Look! Three men are seeking you. 20 However, rise, go downstairs and be on your way with them, not doubting at all, because I have dispatched them.”...23 Therefore he invited them in and entertained them....24 On the day after that he entered into Caes‧a‧re′a....Cornelius met him...28 and he (Peter) said to them: “YOU well know how unlawful it is for a Jew to join himself to or approach a man of another race; and yet God has shown me I should call no man defiled or unclean....34 At this Peter opened his mouth and said: “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, 35 but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him."


So you see, Paul does not contradict Jesus at all. Jesus hinted at a new covenant before his death but the apostles did not have the full understanding of what it meant at that time. It was only later that they came to realise that the new covenant would actually replace the old one.

 

[EverChanging]

First off, I'm a vegetarian. I don't eat meat, so I don't eat pork. I usually avoid animal products as well.

Secondly, I don't regard the Jewish tradition with its canon obsolete. I do not think that Jews should convert to Christianity unless (s)he really wants to. I do not call the Jewish religion the "old covenant." The covenant Christians share in is new to us, and it was new to early Jewish followers of Christ, but I find it offensive to dismiss Judaism as obsolete. It obviously isn't obsolete to Jewish people.

The Jewish laws are for the Jews. I am a Gentile. Therefore, I am not bound by Jewish tradition, nor Christian Gentiles.

I doubt that Jesus came to found another religion. Gentiles came into the church largely due to the influence of St. Paul. With such a large influx of Gentiles into the Christian religion, it became distinct from Judaism over time, becoming a new religion. I doubt Jesus knew this would happen, but in any case, Gentiles are not bound by Jewish dietary laws.

 

[EverChanging]

I should add that the concept of one person, even Jesus, "fulfilling" the Jewish law for all humankind is not the Jewish position. That's not how it works in Judaism, and I'm pretty sure the Jewish people know their tradition and holy books.

 

[earlwooters]

Come on Muhktar, out of all of the sins of Christianity, eating pork was the best you could do? Christians can't even agree on which day is the Sabbath, much less what not to eat. But slow roasted pork is really, really good. Something tells me Jesus knew this.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If Jesus is an embodiment of God, then his word should be obeyed, right?

Then why is it Christians will for example, eat pork?

Jesus said when he came "I am not here to change the ways of Judaism, I follow Moses", didn't he?


Now I know Paul claimed 'revelations', but why, if Jesus is so important, would you follow what Paul says if it contradicts Jesus himself?


Forgive me if I have gotten something wrong here, I do not know too much of Christianity.

I know two possible interpretations... I think both are held by various Christians to various degrees:

- Jewish dietary laws are for Jews specifically. God didn't tell Moses that nobody could eat pork; he only told Moses that Jews couldn't eat pork, and you don't need to be Jewish to be Christian.

- the Laws of Moses are for the living. In baptism, Christians "die to the world" and in the process also become "dead" to the law.

 

[Mister Emu]

Jesus said, roughly, that what a man ate did not defile him, rather what a man says does so.

Furthermore, the issue of whether Gentile Christians should be under the laws of Judaism was decided in Jerusalem. The author of Luke-Acts records what happened(Acts 15), and it was determined that Gentiles were not so required, only ordered refrain from food dedicated to idols, meat from animals strangled, blood, and sexual immorality.

As I am not a Jew, there you go.

 

[EverChanging]

only ordered refrain from food dedicated to idols

It's interesting that St. Paul allowed for eating food dedicated to idols if it would not offend another Christian with weak faith.

 

[Muhktar]

Thanks for the explainations, especially regarding Jesus' hint of a new covenant, and so Paul creating it.

I understand a lot better now.

 

[idav]

Jesus said, roughly, that what a man ate did not defile him, rather what a man says does so.

Furthermore, the issue of whether Gentile Christians should be under the laws of Judaism was decided in Jerusalem. The author of Luke-Acts records what happened(Acts 15), and it was determined that Gentiles were not so required, only ordered refrain from food dedicated to idols, meat from animals strangled, blood, and sexual immorality.

As I am not a Jew, there you go.

That sounds good the gentiles get off easy.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus said, roughly, that what a man ate did not defile him, rather what a man says does so.

Furthermore, the issue of whether Gentile Christians should be under the laws of Judaism was decided in Jerusalem. The author of Luke-Acts records what happened(Acts 15), and it was determined that Gentiles were not so required, only ordered refrain from food dedicated to idols, meat from animals strangled, blood, and sexual immorality.

As I am not a Jew, there you go.

That is a bit of a mistranslation. Jesus said whatever goes into a man does not defile him (could be food) but what comes out of him does (could be excrement). If one looks at the source of how Hepatitus and HIV are passed this makes a lot of sense. The prohibition against eating something still in its blood falls into the same category because diseases are passed by blood as well.

 

[sojourner]

If Jesus is an embodiment of God, then his word should be obeyed, right?

Then why is it Christians will for example, eat pork?

Jesus said when he came "I am not here to change the ways of Judaism, I follow Moses", didn't he?


Now I know Paul claimed 'revelations', but why, if Jesus is so important, would you follow what Paul says if it contradicts Jesus himself?


Forgive me if I have gotten something wrong here, I do not know too much of Christianity.

In fact, the early Xians did follow Judaism. It wasn't until Xy began to spread outside the confines of Israel into Gentile territory that it was decided that the cultural tenets of Judaism were relatively unimportant for Xy. It was seen that what was important about Xy were grace and abundant life -- whatever the cultural expression.