A question for fans of the god myth.

[azza]

Basically what I'm hearing from the Believers is that they believe in God because it makes them feel better than if they didn't believe. It gives them feelings of hope, direction, security etc. Which no one else should have a problem with because it's a personal thing between them and God. Problems arise because people try and impose their PERSONAL beliefs on people who don't wish to share them.

 

[Scuba Pete]

We beleive because it's just TRUE. Aplly your reasoning and intellect to a sun rise all you want, it's true because it's THERE. But if you are blind is is still there? Well, yes of course! Not being able to perceive it does not mean it's not there.

Basically what I'm hearing from the Believers is that they believe in God because it makes them feel better than if they didn't believe.

 

[azza]

We beleive because it's just TRUE. Aplly your reasoning and intellect to a sun rise all you want, it's true because it's THERE. But if you are blind is is still there? Well, yes of course! Not being able to perceive it does not mean it's not there.

I think (just my opinion of course) you believe because you choose to believe it's true not because it is true. (And im not saying it isnt true either, just questioning your certainty ). Not being able to perceive a sun rise does not mean it's not there - true. BUT how do you know your perception is CORRECT. A while back people perceived a sun rise as the sun revolving the earth when the TRUTH turned out to be a little different. So I'm not questioning the fact that you FEEL or have EXPERIENCED SOMETHING. Just how do you know for sure what the source of that something is.

 

[ayani]

Basically what I'm hearing from the Believers is that they believe in God because it makes them feel better than if they didn't believe. It gives them feelings of hope, direction, security etc. Which no one else should have a problem with because it's a personal thing between them and God. Problems arise because people try and impose their PERSONAL beliefs on people who don't wish to share them.

i wouldn't disagree with this, guy. nor would i disagree with Scuba.

 

[Scuba Pete]

A while back people perceived a sun rise as the sun revolving the earth when the TRUTH turned out to be a little different.

No, the sun rise was TRUE. Our understanding of it may change, but the sun rise still happens.

 

[azza]

No, the sun rise was TRUE. Our understanding of it may change, but the sun rise still happens.

I'm asking what makes you believe that your understanding of it is the correct one over someone else's understanding of it.

 

[Scuba Pete]

My understanding of a phenomenon notwithstanding has little bearing on the truth of the phenomenon. You can not discern the spiritual using physical means.

Do you trust your physical sight? Great! I trust my Spiritual sight.

 

[azza]

My understanding of a phenomenon notwithstanding has little bearing on the truth of the phenomenon.

But your understanding of a phenomenon has total bearing on what you believe the truth of that phenomenon to be.

And no I dont completely trust my physical sight. Have you never thought you saw one thing but on closer inspection it turned out to be something else?

 

[jmaster78]

Freeing oneself from god myths is the first step towards real knowledge and freethought.

what is 'real knowledge, and how would ditching ones religion bring it about?

 

[Booko]

How do you feel your life on earth has been made more complete through your religious belief?

This question makes as much sense to me as asking how my life on earth has been made more complete through the laws of thermodynamics.

 

[Booko]

IMO it all depends on the process used for arriving at the "truth". Here's a graphic I posted recently that depicts the scientific process compared to that of the faithful. http://a4.vox.com/6a00c2251d306b604a00cd9713fbf44cd5-pi

All that "proves" is how little an idea you have of the workings of the "faithful."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"Real" knowledge is that constant, never-ending search for the truth in all disciplines, free from the fetters of the prejudice and bias of religion, or any philosophy that rejects the scientific process.

Not all religions reject science. You are greatly over generalizing. The "prejudice and bias" towards science comes from the ultra-conservatives who are too scared to admit they, and thier books, might be or are wrong.
Example; A school bans the Al Gore documentary on Global Warming because a parent complained because it doesn't show the "biblical" viewpoint that "in the end, the sun will burn everything up." I won't argue that holding such viewpoints is unhealthy, destructive, and frightening.
ONTOH, thier are many religious people who do accept science theories. Some more than others, but just because your religious, doesn't mean you reject all of science.

 

[UnTheist]

All that "proves" is how little an idea you have of the workings of the "faithful."

Try and be slow on him. But you have to admit that that is how some people think

 

[Booko]

All scientific theories are tested and rejected if evidence is found that counters the theory. "Real" knowledge is that constant, never-ending search for the truth in all disciplines, free from the fetters of the prejudice and bias of religion, or any philosophy that rejects the scientific process.

Am I reading this right, in that this assumes that religion rejects the scientific process?

 

[azza]

This question makes as much sense to me as asking how my life on earth has been made more complete through the laws of thermodynamics.

Not really. If you wanted to throw science in there instead of religion then it would read. "How do you feel your life on earth has been made more complete through your scientific beliefs?" And I'd have to answer - because it gives me a way to understand/ control/cope with reality. Which are the same reasons I've atributed to why people choose a system of beliefs based on religion. Or even mixing science and religion. It's just a matter of choosing what works for you.

 

[Booko]

Try and be slow on him. But you have to admit that that is how some people think

For many ridiculous propositions, it is possible to show that that is how some people think.

But the fact that some people think a particular way does not make the proposition true.

It's more likely to make it one of the fallacies of overgeneralization.

Which, coming from someone who worships logic, is pretty ironic.

 

[UnTheist]

For many ridiculous propositions, it is possible to show that that is how some people think.

But the fact that some people think a particular way does not make the proposition true.

It's more likely to make it one of the fallacies of overgeneralization.

Which, coming from someone who worships logic, is pretty ironic.

That's all I was stating. Some people can abuse faith. And some use that as a weapon against religion

 

[Booko]

That's all I was stating. Some people can abuse faith. And some use that as a weapon against religion

Of course. Just as a few people abuse atheism and some theists will use that as an excuse against atheism.

 

[UnTheist]

Of course. Just as a few people abuse atheism and some theists will use that as an excuse against atheism.

No argument there.

 

[LogDog]

I'd be interested to see how the graphic comparing science and faith could be improved to more accurately depict reality.