A question for Jews,Chrisians, and Muslims

[James Field]

why did God start reaching out to non-Jews ? Especially if they were his chosen people. Is there any scripture or theological/philosophical position addressing this ?

 

[jeager106]

John 10:16
And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

“You can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ … that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (Eph. 3:4–6).

The Gentiles' Full Inclusion | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org
There are many more verses and online sources.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why wouldn't He? Aren't we all His children? God's not a racist. In fact, I'd be alarmed if God did only reach out to one group of people.

 

[Kolibri]

"I will bless those who bless you, [Abraham], and I will curse him who calls down evil on you, and all the families of the ground will certainly be blessed (or "will obtain a blessing for themselves.") by means of you." - Ge 12:3

"Now the scripture, foreseeing that God would declare people of the nations righteous through faith, declared the good news beforehand to Abraham, namely: "By means of you all the nations will be blessed." So those who adhere to faith are being blessed together with Abraham, who had faith." - Galatians 3:8,9

It was always Jehovah's intent to redeem mankind and draw people of all families to him. Had the Jews remained faithful then the slots available to be part of the administration of God's Kingdom would have remained with the Jews exclusively. But as a nation it was obvious that they would reject the Christ and non-Jews would need to be grafted in. (Hosea 2:23; Ro 9:25,26; 1Pe 2:10)

But the kings and priests are only a few of those that exercise faith. The subjects of that Kingdom would also bless themselves - and they would come "out of all nations and tribes and peoples and languages" (Re 7:9)

 

[Union]

Even after that ?
Mat.21>>
43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44 Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.
45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them. 46 They looked for a way to arrest him, but they were afraid of the crowd because the people held that he was a prophet.

Their 'Chosen' title was cancelled by Jesus long time back .

 

[Union]

And these :

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 23:37)"

"You have heard these things; look at them all. Will you not admit them? "From now on I will tell you of new things, of hidden things unknown to you. They are created now, and not long ago; you have not heard of them before today. So you cannot say, 'Yes, I knew of them.' You have neither heard nor understood; from of old your ear has not been open. Well do I know how treacherous you are; you were called a rebel from birth. For my own name's sake I delay my wrath; for the sake of my praise I hold it back from you, so as not to cut you off. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 48:6-9)"

"So I will disgrace the dignitaries of your temple, and I will consign Jacob to destruction and Israel to scorn. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 43:28)"

"But now, all you who light fires and provide yourselves with flaming torches, go, walk in the light of your fires and of the torches you have set ablaze. This is what you shall receive from my hand: You will lie down in torment. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 50:11)"

 

[Godobeyer]

God choose them among pagans ( believe) , not because race .

Yes God sent many Prophets to Jews, but actually it was not about favors ,on the contrary , it's a big sign of weakness of receiving God message .

because they each time argue and edit God message, and sometimes they killed his Messangers.

 

[Levite]

why did God start reaching out to non-Jews ? Especially if they were his chosen people. Is there any scripture or theological/philosophical position addressing this ?

First of all, being a "chosen people" does not mean that God likes us better than other peoples, or only wants to associate with us. It means that the purpose God has set for Jews is to be His partners in the covenant of Torah. It says nothing about His relations with other peoples, what He wishes from them, or even whether He has other covenants with other peoples. The term, which is really a mistranslation, it should better be rendered along the lines of "a people set aside [for something]," is not exclusivist.

Second of all, God didn't "start" reaching out to non-Jews. God always reaches out, to everybody, and always has. The great religions are the various responses of different peoples to that reaching out, and to the innate desire of all human beings to seek for the numinous, framed in the different cultural, social, and philosophical trappings of the different peoples.

 

[Kolibri]

First of all, being a "chosen people" does not mean that God likes us better than other peoples, or only wants to associate with us. It means that the purpose God has set for Jews is to be His partners in the covenant of Torah. It says nothing about His relations with other peoples, what He wishes from them, or even whether He has other covenants with other peoples. The term, which is really a mistranslation, it should better be rendered along the lines of "a people set aside [for something]," is not exclusivist.

Second of all, God didn't "start" reaching out to non-Jews. God always reaches out, to everybody, and always has. The great religions are the various responses of different peoples to that reaching out, and to the innate desire of all human beings to seek for the numinous, framed in the different cultural, social, and philosophical trappings of the different peoples.

There is a fine point here. When the Law was given at Mount Sinai there was "a vast mixed company" that left with the Israelites. (Ex 12:38) The Israelites were commanded to love "the foreign resident in their midst." (De 10:17-19) They were to accept in their community any foreigners who were willing to observe the basic laws given by Moses. (Lev 24:22) These ones did not have to become proselytes, but they were welcome to do so. (Ex 12:48,49) In this way Jehovah welcomed them as full members of the community. (Num 15:14,15)

 

[James Field]

Do you believe that there have been other covenants or that other of the world's religions(save Christianity or Islam) are responses to that God ? And I apologize if my choice of words were offensive in my post,

 

[James Field]

The biblical passages are interesting, is there anything from the Koran about it ?

 

[James Field]

There is a fine point here. When the Law was given at Mount Sinai there was "a vast mixed company" that left with the Israelites. (Ex 12:38) The Israelites were commanded to love "the foreign resident in their midst." (De 10:17-19) They were to accept in their community any foreigners who were willing to observe the basic laws given by Moses. (Lev 24:22) These ones did not have to become proselytes, but they were welcome to do so. (Ex 12:48,49) In this way Jehovah welcomed them as full members of the community. (Num 15:14,15)

So what was the difference between what the Isrealites were observing as opposed to the basic laws which the foreigners would've ?

 

[Levite]

There is a fine point here. When the Law was given at Mount Sinai there was "a vast mixed company" that left with the Israelites. (Ex 12:38) The Israelites were commanded to love "the foreign resident in their midst." (De 10:17-19) They were to accept in their community any foreigners who were willing to observe the basic laws given by Moses. (Lev 24:22) These ones did not have to become proselytes, but they were welcome to do so. (Ex 12:48,49) In this way Jehovah welcomed them as full members of the community. (Num 15:14,15)

The strangers and resident aliens mentioned in the laws are the members of Canaanite tribes in the land of Canaan who surrender to the Israelites when the Israelites take possession of the land.

The members of the mixed multitude who remained with the people after the Exodus and were present at Sinai all became converts to Judaism when they accepted the Torah at its giving.

 

[Kolibri]

So what was the difference between what the Israelites were observing as opposed to the basic laws which the foreigners would've ?

"'One judicial decision will apply for you, whether a foreign resident or a native, because I am Jehovah your God.'" - Leviticus 24:22

And yet the take part in the worship as regulated by the Law, the foreign residents needed to submit to male circumcision. It was set as a sign of the Abrahamic covenant. (Genesis 17:10,11)

"If a foreigner resides with you and he wants to celebrate the Passover to Jehovah, every male of his must be circumcised. Then he may come near to celebrate it, and he will become like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised man may eat of it. One law will apply for the native and for the foreigner who is residing among you." - Exodus 12:48,49

While it is true that Canaanite tribes were supposed to be pushed out or exterminated due to the extreme filth of their religion, not all of them had to. The Gibeonites submitted willingly and Jehovah protected them.

Years later at the inauguration of Solomon's temple dedicated to Jehovah, provision was made for non-Israelite worshipers even in this late date as indicated by Solomon's prayer.

"Concerning the foreigner who is not part of your people Israel and who comes from a distant land because of your great name and your mighty hand and your outstretched arm, and he comes and prays toward this house, may you then listen from the heavens, your dwelling place, and do all that the foreigner asks of you, so that all the people of the earth may know your name and fear you, as your people Israel do, and may know that your name has been called on this house that I have built." - 2 Chronicles 6:23,33

 

[Godobeyer]

First of all, being a "chosen people" does not mean that God likes us better than other peoples, or only wants to associate with us. It means that the purpose God has set for Jews is to be His partners in the covenant of Torah. It says nothing about His relations with other peoples, what He wishes from them, or even whether He has other covenants with other peoples. The term, which is really a mistranslation, it should better be rendered along the lines of "a people set aside [for something]," is not exclusivist.

Second of all, God didn't "start" reaching out to non-Jews. God always reaches out, to everybody, and always has. The great religions are the various responses of different peoples to that reaching out, and to the innate desire of all human beings to seek for the numinous, framed in the different cultural, social, and philosophical trappings of the different peoples.

Very well wise said .

What is convenant of Torah by list, i mean what is the rules of Jews to God , and of course , what God rules to Jews ?

during the history , were the Jews a good partner in covenants with God ?

 

[Levite]

What is covenant of Torah by list, i mean what is the rules of Jews to God , and of course , what God rules to Jews ?

Well, since the covenant of Torah really is defined by God giving us Torah and we accepting the Torah, it's hard to reduce to a list.

You could always try and look at a listing of the 613 commandments, but it's really more complex than that, since Torah-- in its widest sense, encompassing all of Tanach and Oral Torah-- is more than just commandments.

I guess the best short definition of the covenant is that by accepting the Torah, we become a people sanctified and set aside for a purpose-- that purpose being to be the people who live the path of Torah, and using the wisdom that Torah both gives and generates in order to become living examples of the positive attributes that God has demonstrated to us for us to emulate, such as compassion, lovingkindness, mercy, justice, and so forth. God, in turn, will be our God, and His responsibilities include teaching us, being there for us, and helping us grow closer to Him.

during the history , were the Jews a good partner in covenants with God ?

Well, there have been times we did pretty well, and times we did pretty poorly, and a lot of times in between-- we're only human, after all. We definitely still have a long way to go before we really start fulfilling our promise, though.

 

[Godobeyer]

Well, since the covenant of Torah really is defined by God giving us Torah and we accepting the Torah, it's hard to reduce to a list.

You could always try and look at a listing of the 613 commandments, but it's really more complex than that, since Torah-- in its widest sense, encompassing all of Tanach and Oral Torah-- is more than just commandments.

I guess the best short definition of the covenant is that by accepting the Torah, we become a people sanctified and set aside for a purpose-- that purpose being to be the people who live the path of Torah, and using the wisdom that Torah both gives and generates in order to become living examples of the positive attributes that God has demonstrated to us for us to emulate, such as compassion, lovingkindness, mercy, justice, and so forth. God, in turn, will be our God, and His responsibilities include teaching us, being there for us, and helping us grow closer to Him.



Well, there have been times we did pretty well, and times we did pretty poorly, and a lot of times in between-- we're only human, after all. We definitely still have a long way to go before we really start fulfilling our promise, though.

thanks for enlight me about this .

I thought i mixed between convenants and commandements .

Torah is sent by God . that's clear .

Oral Torah (Talmud) is explianation of Torah by Rabbis ?

so Jews considere Oral Torah (Talmud) as NEW update of Torah by God throught Rabbis ?

Why Talmud during 3000 years did not completetly translate to any language ? is not because it's contents some mythes , or racist ?

I heard in Egyptian TV programe the Mr Tawfiq Okasha he talks about Talmud content racist passages , so owner of that TV sent (peace) message to all Jews to reject these passages and back to original reference Torah .


NOTE : this video in Arabic language

he said Talmud content about 63 books , just one book translated to Arabic .

in full episode he made call to Jews to reject the racist parts of Talmud

 

[dantech]

thanks for enlight me about this .

I thought i mixed between convenants and commandements .

Torah is sent by God . that's clear .

Oral Torah (Talmud) is explianation of Torah by Rabbis ?

so Jews considere Oral Torah (Talmud) as NEW update of Torah by God throught Rabbis ?

Jews believe that Oral Torah comes straight from God, that it has been given to Moses at the same time as the written Torah. The Gemarrah is the rabbinical commentary of this law (Mishnah).

Le Judaism croit que la Torah Oral vient directement de Dieu,et qu'elle a été donné en même temps que la loi ecrite (Torah). La Gemarrah est la compilation de commentaires des rabbins vis-a-vis cette loie oral (Mishnah).

Why Talmud during 3000 years did not completetly translate to any language ? is not because it's contents some mythes , or racist ?

The Talmud, in written form, is not 3000 years old. It's around 1800-1900 years old. It is today translated into many languages. Just like in any other sacred text, there are indeed mythes, some which have been proven and no longer qualify as myth, and some which are yet to be proven. As for racism, anything can be considered racist if taken out of context, do you have anything in particular which you would like an explanation to?

Le Talmud, en forme écrite, ne date pas d'il y a 3000 ans, mais plutôt de 1800-1900 ans. Il a été aujourd'hui traduit en de nombreuses langues. Tout comme tout autre text sacré, de n'importe quelle religion, le text contient des mythes. Certains de ces mythes ont été prouvés réels, tandis que d'autre reste des mythes. Pour ce qui est du racisme, n'importe quoi pourrait être considéré raciste si tu ne le prends pas en context. Si tu as une question particulière pour laquelle tu voudrais une explication, demande la!

I heard in Egyptian TV programe the Mr Tawfiq Okasha he talks about Talmud content racist passages , so owner of that TV sent (peace) message to all Jews to reject these passages and back to original reference Torah .

A message of peace is always good. However, I suspect that Mr.Tawfiq Okasha never actually sat down with a Talmud Scholar to try and see if these "racist passages" truly are racist. People should verify their facts before transmitting information to the world.

Un message de paix est toujours plaisant. Par contre, je doute fort que M. Tawfiq Okasha se soit déjà assis avec un étudiant du Talmud pour qu'il puisse se défendre contre ces accusations. Le monde devrait vérifier leurs information avant d'induire le monde en erreur.

he said Talmud content about 63 books , just one book translated to Arabic .

The people who translate the Talmud usually tend to do so for the Jews. I don't think there are many Jews out there whose primary language is arabic.

Les traducteurs ont l'habitude te traduire pour un public qui sera interessé dans la traductions. Dans le cas du Talmud, je doute qu'il y ait beaucoup de Juifs que leurs langue primaire est l'Arabe.

in full episode he made call to Jews to reject the racist parts of Talmud

How would you feel if I went on TV and called the Quran racist, and that you should only accept certain parts of it?

Comment tu te sentirais si j'allais sur la télé et je disais au monde que le Koran est raciste, et que tu devrais seulement suivre certaine parties de ce Koran.

 

[bretzter]

I´ve got a few questions of my own.
Like the number of individuals that actually believe that we in one way or another
pray to,or serve the very same God of gods?.
Be he a Jew first,Christian second,or Muslim third or any other denomination for
that matter.
Or is it we would rather have our ears tickled,believe in and follow whatever trend
is in,roll with the flow,or the religion I feel will accept me for what I am instead of
maybe that what I should/could be,regardless of what God thinks about a matter.
And by that I mean,tell me what I want to hear,instead of that what I should hear.
Do I follow Bible doctrine/literally,or word for word,it´s teachings,or rather doctrines
set up by men?.
And what in the world does Judaism have to do with Islam except for both claiming
Abraham as their father?.
If God says for instance that thou shouldn´t commit adultery,feel free to prove me
wrong in saying that it´s perfectly acceptable,as long as I´m a man to have not 1,but 3
wives?.
Or if God says that one should not bear false witness against his brother,along comes
a man and says it´s not only acceptable,but under certain circumstances,admissable.
And by doing so,are we not actually standing in opposition to God,are we really being
that what we claim to the whole world to be doing?.
A complete and total submission to God.
Do I continue to those things I shouldn´t be doing and think I am doing God´s will by doing
them?.
And as for the 2 commandments Christ gave his followers,where was it that he broke
any of the original 10?..
In fact,if you love your God and your neighbor,you would not be breaking any single one of
the original 10 be they those relating to God,or in our inter-personal relationships.
Watch out for Satan,the great Deceiver,Father of the lie,theGod of this system/world people.
Always remain aware of his trickery/devices.
I suggest people who continue to attack the NT,read what it actually has to say as regards
what would happen in the last times,and not just the Book of Revelation.
And convince your own selves as to whether or not those men,unless borne along by Holy Spirit
predict events then that we are witnessing unfold on a grand scale today.
How is that were it to be a lie?.
Truth is,it´s Satan´s purpose to conceal the truth from every living human being.
In ancient Isreal these mere men would be considered a prophet,yet not one of them were
called such.
And afterwards,hopefully you´ll be able to convince not only yourself,but others whether
or not you are practicing the right religion,or going down the path you set out to go down.

 

[Godobeyer]

Jews believe that Oral Torah comes straight from God, that it has been given to Moses at the same time as the written Torah. The Gemarrah is the rabbinical commentary of this law (Mishnah).

Le Judaism croit que la Torah Oral vient directement de Dieu,et qu'elle a été donné en même temps que la loi ecrite (Torah). La Gemarrah est la compilation de commentaires des rabbins vis-a-vis cette loie oral (Mishnah).


The Talmud, in written form, is not 3000 years old. It's around 1800-1900 years old. It is today translated into many languages. Just like in any other sacred text, there are indeed mythes, some which have been proven and no longer qualify as myth, and some which are yet to be proven. As for racism, anything can be considered racist if taken out of context, do you have anything in particular which you would like an explanation to?

Le Talmud, en forme écrite, ne date pas d'il y a 3000 ans, mais plutôt de 1800-1900 ans. Il a été aujourd'hui traduit en de nombreuses langues. Tout comme tout autre text sacré, de n'importe quelle religion, le text contient des mythes. Certains de ces mythes ont été prouvés réels, tandis que d'autre reste des mythes. Pour ce qui est du racisme, n'importe quoi pourrait être considéré raciste si tu ne le prends pas en context. Si tu as une question particulière pour laquelle tu voudrais une explication, demande la!


A message of peace is always good. However, I suspect that Mr.Tawfiq Okasha never actually sat down with a Talmud Scholar to try and see if these "racist passages" truly are racist. People should verify their facts before transmitting information to the world.

Un message de paix est toujours plaisant. Par contre, je doute fort que M. Tawfiq Okasha se soit déjà assis avec un étudiant du Talmud pour qu'il puisse se défendre contre ces accusations. Le monde devrait vérifier leurs information avant d'induire le monde en erreur.


The people who translate the Talmud usually tend to do so for the Jews. I don't think there are many Jews out there whose primary language is arabic.

Les traducteurs ont l'habitude te traduire pour un public qui sera interessé dans la traductions. Dans le cas du Talmud, je doute qu'il y ait beaucoup de Juifs que leurs langue primaire est l'Arabe.


How would you feel if I went on TV and called the Quran racist, and that you should only accept certain parts of it?

Comment tu te sentirais si j'allais sur la télé et je disais au monde que le Koran est raciste, et que tu devrais seulement suivre certaine parties de ce Koran.

EDITED

thanks for these efforts , just translate me to French when i request . it's so kind .


can you give me a origine hebrew website link sources of ALL 63 books of Talmud ?
because the an expert in that TV channel will translate it to Arabic , it's may take few years .
so in that time i compare it to your origin reference .

btw I guess Mr Tawif Okasha is famous in Israel , he announce angry speech against Hamas , when he suspect Hamas memebers murder some Egyptian soldiers in Sinai .


can you please give us some exemples of mythes passages from Talmud ?