a question for Muslims , The Christians and Jews are Kofar (disbelievers) or not?

[sumaidi]

or, i think,"people of the book" refers to jews and christians today. when the prophet moses and jesus still alive, in my understanding, they called just as the followers of moses and jesus.

 

[JAZZMINE]

I think"kafir" is refer to the person who is worship other Gods other than Allah,or worship other Gods with Allah..anyone can be "Kafir" even Muslim itself if they believed others than Allah.And for Christian,what they believed is Jesus is the son of God,Jesus is God..etc.If they believed so,Yes..they are ''kafir"..As in Surah Al -ikhlas,certainly already explained beautifully about Allah."He begets not,nor is He begotten".
And do we call anyone who did not know about Islam as "kafir"?of course not.Allah will give His sign through the nature or any other way to them to get to know the Creator of this universe.Allah certainly will show His sign to everybody.As we can know from Abraham,He get to know about Allah through nature..(Im so sorry,my english is quite weak.hope you understand)

 

[F0uad]

I take all my words back since i cannot answer this nor do i know anything off this subject i am not willing to put my neck on the line and speak on the behalf of allah(swt). I personally think Christians and Jews are not fully kaffirs but i can be wrong and may allah(swt) forgive me for my shortcomings and miss-understanding.

 

[JAZZMINE]

Another short explaination about Kafir is,someone who rejected or refused the sign which is already given by Allah.

 

[Gharib]

I take all my words back since i cannot answer this nor do i know anything off this subject i am not willing to put my neck on the line and speak on the behalf of allah(swt). I personally think Christians and Jews are not fully kaffirs but i can be wrong and may allah(swt) forgive me for my shortcomings and miss-understanding.

Brother have you read my post #17?

 

[F0uad]

Brother have you read my post #17?

I did now, i already knew those hadiths as a counter-argument i can quote Surah 5:69 and Surah 2:62.

Believers, Jews, Sabaeans and Christians - whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right - shall have nothing to fear or to regret

Believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabaeans whoever believe in God and the Last Day and does what is right shall be rewarded by their Lord; they have nothing to fear or to regret

But like i said before i don´t know so i rather stick to that answer i am not calling them Kaffirs or not-Kaffirs i simply don´t know since i am not the one making that decision.

as Imam Nawawi notes:
"Someone who does not believe that whoever follows another religion besides Islam is an unbeliever (like Christians), or doubts that such a person is an unbeliever, or considers their sect to be valid, is himself an unbeliever (kafir) even if he manifests Islam and believes in it" (Rawda al-talibin, 10.70).

Serious? So muslims calling muslims kafir now great...

Like the staff posted Kafir has many definition it depends on which one you use it can mean (Rejecting God, Rejecting Islam, Rejecting the prophet and more..)

Non-muslims are kafirs in the way of rejecting Islam, People who deny god are kafirs in the way of rejecting God... I think both meanings have a different punishment but i am not sure.

 

[sumaidi]

Serious? So muslims calling muslims kafir now great...

.

Yes brother, it happen in my country, indonesia. here there many muslims organizations/groups. as the group assume it the best one, sometimes they call the other muslim as kafir. commonly, they are the radical one or related with terrorism. they believe that it halal to kill / to bomb the kafirs.

 

[F0uad]

Yes brother, it happen in my country, indonesia. here there many muslims organizations/groups. as the group assume it the best one, sometimes they call the other muslim as kafir. commonly, they are the radical one or related with terrorism. they believe that it halal to kill / to bomb the kafirs.

I knew that when i was a little boy i was simply telling esslam that the person he quoted made a big error calling other Muslims kaffirs for only the reason of other muslims not knowing.

 

[Yusz]

Salam

Disbelievers or kofar it means who do not believe in one God... Does Christians and Jews believe in one god? ... Yes... It's simple as that..

 

[Bringing Truth]

The word Kafir is derived from the root word "Kufr" which means to deny. Any person who is not a Muslim is a Kaafir as he rejects the religion of Islam, its beliefs, principles and practices.

Its simple as that.

 

[sumaidi]

it has mentioned in hadith that the different between us is shalah ( pray 5 times in a day and night), they who do not do it are kafirs. so it is clear that jews and christians are kafirs. moslems who do not do shalah also called as kafirs... its simple as that

 

[A Thousand Suns]

Kafir is not simply someone who rejects Islam, it is more than that - Kafir is someone who rejects Islam only after knowing it to be Truth. We should be careful when using the term Kafir to Jews or Christians (because there are some Christian sects which do not believe in trinity or Jesus as god) ... so in essence they are upon tawheed (but not Islam) .. they may or may not have received message of Islam, and they may or may not know Islam is truth ... so it is ambiguous to call them kafir


[youtube]IlzGt0AbMjQ[/youtube]
Jews and Christians in the Quran - YouTube

 

[sumaidi]

brother.. the sentence (that the different between us is shalah ( pray 5 times in a day and night), they who do not do it are kafirs ) is not comes from my opinion. but it come from our prophet Muhammad pbuh ( in hadith).

 

[beenie]

brother.. the sentence (that the different between us is shalah ( pray 5 times in a day and night), they who do not do it are kafirs ) is not comes from my opinion. but it come from our prophet Muhammad pbuh ( in hadith).

If you go by this logic, you are calling a large part of the Muslim population "kafirs" too. I think we should let God decide who is "kafir" and who is not, and stop obsessing over who we can call such things.

Ibn Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (May Allah bestow peace and blessings upon him) said, “If a man addresses his brother as, ‘O’ Disbeliever,’ it returns to one of them; either it is as he said or it returns to him.” (Agreed upon – in both Bukhari 10/427 and Muslim 60)

 

[sumaidi]

Ibn Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (May Allah bestow peace and blessings upon him) said, “If a man addresses his brother as, ‘O’ Disbeliever,’ it returns to one of them; either it is as he said or it returns to him.” (Agreed upon – in both Bukhari 10/427 and Muslim 60)

his brother here means moslems. as a moslem do not do shalah it means that he is not a moslem any more. as someone asked rasulullah about the definition about islam, rasulullah muhammad pbuh said that islam mean religious service / curtsey just only to Allah, pray ( shalah) 5 times for a day and night, zakat, fasting in ramadhan and hajj. it means they who are moslem ( in ID card) but not do shalah they are not exactly real moslems.

 

[F0uad]

Kafir has many definitions it depends which one you use.

Kafir can mean rejection of the One-God.
Kafir can mean rejection of Islam.
Kafir can mean rejection of the Prophet(saws).
Kafir can mean rejection after knowing the truth (ignorance).

 

[Gharib]

Ibn Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (May Allah bestow peace and blessings upon him) said, “If a man addresses his brother as, ‘O’ Disbeliever,’ it returns to one of them; either it is as he said or it returns to him.” (Agreed upon – in both Bukhari 10/427 and Muslim 60)

his brother here means moslems. as a moslem do not do shalah it means that he is not a moslem any more. as someone asked rasulullah about the definition about islam, rasulullah muhammad pbuh said that islam mean religious service / curtsey just only to Allah, pray ( shalah) 5 times for a day and night, zakat, fasting in ramadhan and hajj. it means they who are moslem ( in ID card) but not do shalah they are not exactly real moslems.

Salam brother, you need to understand Aqeedah properly to come to conclusions like these.

From the the Aqeedah (belief) perspective, if a Muslim accepts that prayer is obligatory in Islam and he doesn't pray, that is just a sin on himself and doesn't make him a Kaffir. But if he says that Muslims are not required to pray and that it is not obligatory, then he becomes a kaffir.

So to call millions of Muslims kaffirs for not praying while not knowing the proper rulings nor their views on salah is haram. Please for your own good stay away from matters like this unless you have adequate knowledge.

And do not say about what your tongues assert of untruth, "This is lawful and this is unlawful," to invent falsehood about Allah . Indeed, those who invent falsehood about Allah will not succeed. [16:116]

 

[sumaidi]

Salam brother, you need to understand Aqeedah properly to come to conclusions like these.

From the the Aqeedah (belief) perspective, if a Muslim accepts that prayer is obligatory in Islam and he doesn't pray, that is just a sin on himself and doesn't make him a Kaffir. But if he says that Muslims are not required to pray and that it is not obligatory, then he becomes a kaffir.

So to call millions of Muslims kaffirs for not praying while not knowing the proper rulings nor their views on salah is haram. Please for your own good stay away from matters like this unless you have adequate knowledge.

And do not say about what your tongues assert of untruth, "This is lawful and this is unlawful," to invent falsehood about Allah . Indeed, those who invent falsehood about Allah will not succeed. [16:116]

assalam alaika brother, sorry if i have lack knowledge on this.

you check it in hadith ( tirmidzi, kitab iman, 13 - 5)
" baina abdi wa baina kufri tarku shalah" ( the different between moslem (abdi/ believer) and kafirs is leaving shalah" )

 

[Gharib]

assalam alaika brother, sorry if i have lack knowledge on this.

you check it in hadith ( tirmidzi, kitab iman, 13 - 5)
" baina abdi wa baina kufri tarku shalah" ( the different between moslem (abdi/ believer) and kafirs is leaving shalah" )

Alaykum Salam brother.

I know about the hadith, if we as lay people without any sound knowledge take things at face value without knowing all relevant information and in this case the information which deal with belief, then what we say is most definitely wrong.

What I said above, is the view of Imam Abu Hanifa, which is stated in his book of Aqeedah.

I advise you to take the views of scholars instead of your own interpretation of hadith.

Let me give you an example:
In one hadith it says that shyness is half of Iman.
In another it says that marriage (getting married) is half of Iman.
In another it says that good manners is half of Iman.

There are a few other hadith of similar nature. So according to those hadith, if we take them at face value without proper understanding of Aqeedah, then being shy and married equates to being a Muslim. So it doesn't matter that you don't pray if you already have full Iman (belief).

I don't know how much sense my example makes, but there is more to Aqeedah (what equates belief, what equates disbelief and what equates simply a sin) than what you and I know.

I am only advising you in the same manner that I would want to be advised by someone regarding this topic if I didn't know much about Aqeedah. If you don't want my advice, then please study Aqeedah.

I don't want to be rude, I just don't want you to say things which aren't true because both you and I will be held accountable for what we say.

 

[sumaidi]

Alaykum Salam brother.

I know about the hadith, if we as lay people without any sound knowledge take things at face value without knowing all relevant information and in this case the information which deal with belief, then what we say is most definitely wrong.

What I said above, is the view of Imam Abu Hanifa, which is stated in his book of Aqeedah.

I advise you to take the views of scholars instead of your own interpretation of hadith.

Let me give you an example:
In one hadith it says that shyness is half of Iman.
In another it says that marriage (getting married) is half of Iman.
In another it says that good manners is half of Iman.

There are a few other hadith of similar nature. So according to those hadith, if we take them at face value without proper understanding of Aqeedah, then being shy and married equates to being a Muslim. So it doesn't matter that you don't pray if you already have full Iman (belief).

I don't know how much sense my example makes, but there is more to Aqeedah (what equates belief, what equates disbelief and what equates simply a sin) than what you and I know.

I am only advising you in the same manner that I would want to be advised by someone regarding this topic if I didn't know much about Aqeedah. If you don't want my advice, then please study Aqeedah.

I don't want to be rude, I just don't want you to say things which aren't true because both you and I will be held accountable for what we say.

thank you brother for the advice, exactly i study islam start about 3 years ago. and still need many info about islam, may Allah gives me more knowledge in aqeedah.

today i know that many moslems don't really study islam from qur'an and hadith. we know it that they even don't have qur'an and hadith in their home. its the clue, as some one a moslem and he doesn't has ( and learn) qur'an and hadith how could they being a good moslems. Rasulullah give guarantee as someone take qur'an and hadith as the guidance then they will never get a wrong way.



sorry brother, if the source is from book ( made by human being / not from god) it can be wrong.

brother, i don't agree with that statement ( it doesn't matter that you don't pray if you already have full Iman (belief)). i never met this both in qur'an and hadith. so my opinion (also mention in hadith abu daud, kitab shalah) is a moslem however the situation and whenever have to do shalah 5 time a day. but if because of forget or other reasons sometimes they leave shalah, yes it make sins. but if do not do shalah at all its mean they are not moslems exactly.