A question of prayer and answers

[interminable]

Not me (Not of God at least)

If you believe that God created you and you owe him everything for this, feel free.. but that doesn't mean it is so...

How about a mother praying for her daughter not to die of cancer?
How is that outside of this carnal world?

See above please...

Or in other words.. We don't really know ?
If a prayer is just a matter of raising a flag.. like.. God.. not asking anything.. but please note my child is sick..
And not expecting anything in return, then what is the point of the prayer?
Again.. if this is one's way to cope with something he cannot cope otherwise.. Great..
But you can't teach people that it works.. you can't tell people they SHOULD pray..

Don't you think this kind of renders all humans obsolete?
When a doctor saves someone's life.. it wasn't God.. it was the doctor...
When a fireman rescue a small child from the wracks.. it wasn't God, It was the fireman..
If someone died from a disease and another survived the exact same disease, its because we are yet to fully understand what caused A to survive or B not to... it doesn't mean God decided he wants to spare A's life...

Doctors and firemen all of them are mere tools to save us

If God wants to take someone's soul who can stop him??

Look we have a specific time to live in this carnal world
Sometimes u go to see doctors but instead of remedy they kill u mistakenly

And sometimes as u said they save us but it doesn't mean that they are complete cause for saving us
If they use medicines these medicines are tools too

There is a good motto in Iran on some of the pharmacy's doors

Medicine is here but remedy is from God

Every single motion in this world is allowed by God if he doesn't want something to happen it won't happen

 

[viole]

I pray to remember God. That is all.

With what frequency?

Ciao

- viole

 

[George-ananda]

I See your point.. But do you think that a big part of what we today spiritual or super natural is at the most, a phenomena we just can't really explain yet?

Yes, it is certainly phenomena western science can not explain yet but that is why I referenced a wisdom tradition (eastern/Indian) that I believe superior on such issues than western science and western religion.

Take the Ouija board for example...
I Come from a very "spiritual" family...
I My self learned and toyed with enormousness amount of supernatural methods and experiments.. (Ouija is among them)... but at the end of it.. almost every experience i used to believe as super natural, turned out to be a natural thing that we just didn't know to explain...
I Believe there are people who can analyze situations much better than others.. they can read minor signs that allows them to interpret things you might otherwise think were "Given" to them from an external source...
If you want to call these phenomenons supernatural.. Its up to you...

Some things in the end fall within the range of current scientific knowledge but if you look into this seriously there are bodies of cases on various types of phenomena (as in the link I provided) that can not reasonably be explained away as within the range of normal phenomena. This body of data suggests there are dramatic things beyond the reach of current science.

What i talk about is something else.. I am talking about God.. a God that answers prayers..Not the power of auto suggestion... Not positive thinking, rather an actual entity that answers people's prayers based on whatever logic it have..

Ok, so let get back to the OP topic of prayers. As I saw you are coming from an 'atheist' perspective, I first had to establish why I believe there are non-physical entities that can make the answering of prayers at least logically possible. According to the eastern/Indian tradition, prayers of people from any tradition can be answered and assistance provided however as I said the reasons behind things include events and causes beyond our limited sight so to us the answering of prayers may seen random but there are reasons beyond our current understanding.

That's a whole different issue then unexplained phenomena.
See this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal

Is it fair to assume that if there anywhere in the planet a person that really have supernatural abilities, he could have proved it?
And if not, this means the abilities are nothing more than statistics to he's favor?

Now back to the paranormal. The guy from the link I provided also offers money to skeptics that can show him wrong. But I think these things are a distraction because the person who creates the challenge also gets to be the final judge. But also most paranormal events are anecdotal so leave no physical evidence. I do believe there are now triple-blind studies showing the abilities of gifted mediums.

 

[Tumah]

Hi All,
I Would like to talk a bit about the concept of prayer.
As I see it, a prayer is a way for someone who believes to "talk" with God and present him with your desires, gratitude and such.
But there is something that I really resent in the form that SOME people actually believe God answers those prayers..
Lets think of a scenario:

There is an outbreak of some violent disease, taking away lives one by one, lets assume it is affecting only children.
You can only assume that the religious people will prayer and give all their mind to wishing for their little one to survive the horrific situation...
My issue is that if for some reason, their child really is cured and manages to survive the terrible situation, it will be publicly be announced and a prayer answered.. as a miracle.. as something out of the ordinary caused by a super natural thing.
I find this to be one of the worst things humans can do to there fellow beings.
Imagine you have two mothers, they both pray for the same God,
they both lead good life and try as hard as they can to be kind and loving human being.
Now imagine only one child survives...
Not only the mother who just lost her child actually believes that God didn't answer her prayers, on top of that, the other Mother "rubs it in her face" that her child was saved. That god chose her child over hers.
even if the bereavement mother thinks that "God have it's mysterious ways" or that her child is in a better place... This is one of the most abusive things that can happen.
I Know that the concept of prayer (especially for other humans well being) comes from a positive position.. but what a devastating consequences it might have!
Although the example I gave was extreme, this goes for anything else in life..
Someone prays and get financial success.. WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO PRAYED AND DIDN'T?
Someone prays and manage to get pregnant... WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO PRAYED AND DIDN'T?

How twisted is it that when you get what you prayed for, it is God's wish?
Imagine the pain it might cause to someone who is on the "Losing" team...
How is that any different than saying: God loves me and not You?
How is it any different than saying that god discriminates people?

to make it all worse, Imagine the fact that people actually believe that the thing that caused the problem in the first place, was God's will...

If you'll take the same scenario and strip it from the concept of God and dress it on another human...

You have two mothers, Both with child. there is a man, and he decides to kill just one of the children...
Will ANYONE in the world praise the man for "Saving" the other child's life???

Sorry.. I really can't get my mind to understand how people can actually accept this way of thinking...

I Would really appreciate your thoughts or POV so i can try and understand it better.
Regards,
And wishing everybody (No matter what God he prays or not to) a full, healthy and cheerful life

And I guess that's part of the down-side of egalitarian thinking.

Not everything that's good for one person, is good for another. People have the freedom to choose to think whatever they like. The wise one will realize that his situation required a different outcome than his friend's but that they're both equally beneficial for the recipient.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I've never prayed for petition to the abrahamic god. When I prayed to god as an Catholic (I'd never call myself an ex- but former practicing one) it was more praying internally to understand the nature of Christ and his spirit since I believe spirits exist. Prayer became more of getting to understand who people are, building a relationship (or however named) with the whom or whatever you revere. Prayer is from the act of the believer not who they pray to.

With that, if two mothers prayed to the same god and one child dies, their prayers had nothing to do with it. That's their petition but god, in abrahamic thought, does what he feels like. Which is weird because the Bible says otherwise. I'm not familar with the Quran. God didn't kill that child. It's just life. We are born, we live, we suffer, we pass on. It's the mothers responsibilities for her actions in whether she show-boats her child is alive and the other child dies. In the scenario, god can be scapegoat, but unless god is actually present like the man scenario, how do you know god did anything?

Prayers are the actions of people. However we interpret the answers is from us. If I believe that a spirit exists, I know its real. However, I'm not you and not Joe Smoe so that claim of fact even though it's objective to me, may not mean anything in the scheme of things. I'm open to that. Many are not.

First, I'd say think of if god actually exist. I understand the frustration but if you realize god doesn't exist, how does the scenario make sense? Would you feel a bit better if you realize that its in the hands of people rather than an all powerful god? It may be something you can understand more.

If you believe god does exist, maybe, as Quien says, look at how other people view gods rather than just the god of abraham. Broaden how you see god. If I called the spirits gods, they do care for us and they are not all powerful so if one child dies and the other doesn't, I have no reason to blame them when they have no responsibility to save that child. Death is just a part of life.

Maybe the god of Abraham understands death is a part of life. Maybe you are seeing death as an end when most people who believe the god of Abraham do not.

There are many perspectives on how god "supposedly" allows evil. I never believed that. Life is life. If we can't accept death, then we will always find ways to blame god for something even if we believe god doesn't exist (which is weird by itself).

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Hi All,
I Would like to talk a bit about the concept of prayer.
As I see it, a prayer is a way for someone who believes to "talk" with God and present him with your desires, gratitude and such.
But there is something that I really resent in the form that SOME people actually believe God answers those prayers..
Lets think of a scenario:
There is an outbreak of some violent disease, taking away lives one by one, lets assume it is affecting only children.
You can only assume that the religious people will prayer and give all their mind to wishing for their little one to survive the horrific situation...
My issue is that if for some reason, their child really is cured and manages to survive the terrible situation, it will be publicly be announced and a prayer answered.. as a miracle.. as something out of the ordinary caused by a super natural thing.
I find this to be one of the worst things humans can do to there fellow beings.
Imagine you have two mothers, they both pray for the same God,
they both lead good life and try as hard as they can to be kind and loving human being.
Now imagine only one child survives...
Not only the mother who just lost her child actually believes that God didn't answer her prayers, on top of that, the other Mother "rubs it in her face" that her child was saved. That god chose her child over hers.
even if the bereavement mother thinks that "God have it's mysterious ways" or that her child is in a better place... This is one of the most abusive things that can happen.
I Know that the concept of prayer (especially for other humans well being) comes from a positive position.. but what a devastating consequences it might have!
Although the example I gave was extreme, this goes for anything else in life..
Someone prays and get financial success.. WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO PRAYED AND DIDN'T?
Someone prays and manage to get pregnant... WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO PRAYED AND DIDN'T?
How twisted is it that when you get what you prayed for, it is God's wish?
Imagine the pain it might cause to someone who is on the "Losing" team...
How is that any different than saying: God loves me and not You?
How is it any different than saying that god discriminates people?
to make it all worse, Imagine the fact that people actually believe that the thing that caused the problem in the first place, was God's will...
If you'll take the same scenario and strip it from the concept of God and dress it on another human...
You have two mothers, Both with child. there is a man, and he decides to kill just one of the children...
Will ANYONE in the world praise the man for "Saving" the other child's life???
Sorry.. I really can't get my mind to understand how people can actually accept this way of thinking...
I Would really appreciate your thoughts or POV so i can try and understand it better.
Regards,
And wishing everybody (No matter what God he prays or not to) a full, healthy and cheerful life

And the God of the Bible wishes you a full, healthy and cheerful life -> Jeremiah 29:11

Since 'sin' entered our world, death comes with sin - Romans 5:12; Romans 3:23
The passing of time has allowed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
What is God's will ( purpose ) but that His will be done right here on Earth as it is done in Heaven.
There is No sickness in heaven, No violence, No crime, No war, No pollution and No death in Heaven.
So, we are praying ' thy kingdom come ' so that those same good heavenly conditions come and exist right here on Earth. The purpose of Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth is to re-establish the original paradisical edenic conditions as originally existed in the Garden on Eden on Earth. Then, earth's nations will be healed - Revelation 22:2, and No one will say, " I am sick...." - Isaiah 33:24, see also Isaiah 35 th chapter.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Not me (Not of God at least)
If you believe that God created you and you owe him everything for this, feel free.. but that doesn't mean it is so...
How about a mother praying for her daughter not to die of cancer?
How is that outside of this carnal world?
See above please...
Or in other words.. We don't really know ?
If a prayer is just a matter of raising a flag.. like.. God.. not asking anything.. but please note my child is sick..
And not expecting anything in return, then what is the point of the prayer?
Again.. if this is one's way to cope with something he cannot cope otherwise.. Great..
But you can't teach people that it works.. you can't tell people they SHOULD pray..
Don't you think this kind of renders all humans obsolete?
When a doctor saves someone's life.. it wasn't God.. it was the doctor...
When a fireman rescue a small child from the wracks.. it wasn't God, It was the fireman..
If someone died from a disease and another survived the exact same disease, its because we are yet to fully understand what caused A to survive or B not to... it doesn't mean God decided he wants to spare A's life...

Right, God does Not decide He wants to spare A's life because time and unforeseen events happen to everyone according to Ecclesiastes 9:11.
Like the People at the Tower of Siloam were just at the wrong place, wrong time - Luke 13:4-5

Often man also dominates man to man's hurt or injury - Ecclesiastes 8:9

 

[roger1440]

Hi All,
I Would like to talk a bit about the concept of prayer.
As I see it, a prayer is a way for someone who believes to "talk" with God and present him with your desires, gratitude and such.
But there is something that I really resent in the form that SOME people actually believe God answers those prayers..
Lets think of a scenario:

There is an outbreak of some violent disease, taking away lives one by one, lets assume it is affecting only children.
You can only assume that the religious people will prayer and give all their mind to wishing for their little one to survive the horrific situation...
My issue is that if for some reason, their child really is cured and manages to survive the terrible situation, it will be publicly be announced and a prayer answered.. as a miracle.. as something out of the ordinary caused by a super natural thing.
I find this to be one of the worst things humans can do to there fellow beings.
Imagine you have two mothers, they both pray for the same God,
they both lead good life and try as hard as they can to be kind and loving human being.
Now imagine only one child survives...
Not only the mother who just lost her child actually believes that God didn't answer her prayers, on top of that, the other Mother "rubs it in her face" that her child was saved. That god chose her child over hers.
even if the bereavement mother thinks that "God have it's mysterious ways" or that her child is in a better place... This is one of the most abusive things that can happen.
I Know that the concept of prayer (especially for other humans well being) comes from a positive position.. but what a devastating consequences it might have!
Although the example I gave was extreme, this goes for anything else in life..
Someone prays and get financial success.. WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO PRAYED AND DIDN'T?
Someone prays and manage to get pregnant... WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO PRAYED AND DIDN'T?

How twisted is it that when you get what you prayed for, it is God's wish?
Imagine the pain it might cause to someone who is on the "Losing" team...
How is that any different than saying: God loves me and not You?
How is it any different than saying that god discriminates people?

to make it all worse, Imagine the fact that people actually believe that the thing that caused the problem in the first place, was God's will...

If you'll take the same scenario and strip it from the concept of God and dress it on another human...

You have two mothers, Both with child. there is a man, and he decides to kill just one of the children...
Will ANYONE in the world praise the man for "Saving" the other child's life???

Sorry.. I really can't get my mind to understand how people can actually accept this way of thinking...

I Would really appreciate your thoughts or POV so i can try and understand it better.
Regards,
And wishing everybody (No matter what God he prays or not to) a full, healthy and cheerful life

Notice in the "Lord's Prayer" it says nothing about changing the world. It says nothing about winning the lottery, helping a sick friend or getting a new shinny car or have a house drop on your enemy. What it does say is ask for God's help to be more "holy" or "righteous". Use what ever ever lofty term you want. This very simple prayer is an brief outline on what to ask of God. According to this prayer we should ask God to change how we live within the world. It doesn't say anything about changing the world within we live. "Our daily bread" we ask for is not for the stomach, it's food to nourish the soul.

Matthew 6:9–13
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

 

[Aštra’el]

For me, the primary purpose of prayer is to strengthen the bond between the individual and the God(s), to grow in the most prominent attributes of the God(s), and to strengthen the power and influence of the God(s) within one's subjective universe and spiritual-religious system.

My prayers are always answered by God(s)... not in the form of miraculous, supernatural fulfillment of unrealistic wishes but in the form of deific wisdom, deific inspiration and motivation, subjectively perceived deific thoughts and perspectives about the worlds within and around me, the sharing or exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings, and deific guidance towards the fulfillment of my goals in accordance with my own True Will and subjectively perceived Will of God(s).

 

[Segev Moran]

Doctors and firemen all of them are mere tools to save us

What about murderers and rapists?
Are they also a tool to save us all?

If God wants to take someone's soul who can stop him??

How do you know God wants to take someone's soul?
Its one thing to say that if you die, your soul returns to God... But here you claim you know that God wants our souls? Aren't we all his in the first place?
Why would he prefer one soul over the other?

Look we have a specific time to live in this carnal world
Sometimes u go to see doctors but instead of remedy they kill u mistakenly

Yep.. Or just could't cure you...
That's exactly what I am saying.. It happens.. not everyone is curable.. it has nothing to do with faith or God rather the ability of the doctors to cure him.

And sometimes as u said they save us but it doesn't mean that they are complete cause for saving us
If they use medicines these medicines are tools too

Of course they are.. they are tools invented by humans.. I Can't see how that might prove the existence of a God or a Soul

There is a good motto in Iran on some of the pharmacy's doors
Medicine is here but remedy is from God

Yet still people come and buy the medicine.. if the medicine eventually has no effect on whether or not you will be cured, why would you need a pharmacy?

Every single motion in this world is allowed by God if he doesn't want something to happen it won't happen

Can you point me in the past 300 years, of any example that you can say without a doubt that it might not have happened if there was no God?
What about the past 1000 years?
You don't find it odd that as science expands it's knowledge, the number of so called miracles is lower?

 

[Segev Moran]

I believe superior on such issues than western science and western religion.

Based on what?

This body of data suggests there are dramatic things beyond the reach of current science.

Of current science.. I Agree..
Let me ask you a question..
Which of the five options seems to you as most reliable answer for the following riddle:

You leave in a world that there is nothing but blue balls in it...
there is an opaque box, in it are balls.
You need to say if there are red balls inside that box...

1. Sure there are, I Know for a fact as I saw it with my own eyes.. unfortunately.. no one else could see it.
2. Sure. There are thousands of people that claim they saw weird things that suggest there are red balls. Not anyone can see those things, rather only people who believe they saw them.
3. Of course there are red balls There is a great book about red balls that explain exactly what red balls are. I Know there are things in that book that are very wrong, but these were all written just to prove a point.. its the things we can't really tell that are the real message of the book.
4. There are no red balls, for sure. There is no way that red balls are real. There is also no way we can ever prove or disprove blue balls are real.
5. I Don't really know. As it seems, we never saw evidence that might suggest that there are red balls.. So it is likely that there are no red balls in the box.

I Would love to hear the answer

I first had to establish why I believe there are non-physical entities that can make the answering of prayers at least logically possible.

You haven't yet established it.. You established the fact that YOU believe there are non-physical entities.

but there are reasons beyond our current understanding.

I Can agree on that.. I Just add that the fact there is a reason at all is also beyond our understanding.. that's it.

Now back to the paranormal. The guy from the link I provided also offers money to skeptics that can show him wrong.

I Can offer any amount of prize right now to the person who can prove I don't communicate with invisible entities that are actually the entities that created this universe.
They communicate with me and claim that everyone should follow my lead and do exactly what I say or else they will be turned into cockroaches after they die.

They also told me the universe is not what we think, rather an illusion and they can suspend the way nature works... but only when they choose to..

Besides that, only if someone really believes they talk to him, will they really talk to him...

It is also of course needless to say that they are not something that is part of this universe so we can't really have evidence to their existence.. but I KNOW they are real.

Good luck

I do believe there are now triple-blind studies showing the abilities of gifted mediums.

Yet not even one can pass any test ever made in a controlled observed conditions. how weird

 

[interminable]

What about murderers and rapists?
Are they also a tool to save us all?

All of them are mere tools too
But consider that these evils and bad actions are implications of human's ability of choice
It's not supposed and isn't obligation on god to prevent such things
If it were this carnal world was heaven but u know here isn't heaven
God created human beings with ability of choosing good or bad some choose bad so having implications is inevitable

How do you know God wants to take someone's soul?

Seems u aren't a beliver so proving that needs lots of arguments

Its one thing to say that if you die, your soul returns to God... But here you claim you know that God wants our souls? Aren't we all his in the first place?
Why would he prefer one soul over the other?

We don't know exactly why God takes someone's soul while he is child or...
But we know something
We are in his hand he does whatever he wants
But because he's all knowing we trust him

Yep.. Or just could't cure you...
That's exactly what I am saying.. It happens.. not everyone is curable.. it has nothing to do with faith or God rather the ability of the doctors to cure him.

How doctors gain their knowledge?
Who has given them their minds and thoughts?
If u think carefully u will find that everything in this world has come from a powerful person

Of course they are.. they are tools invented by humans.. I Can't see how that might prove the existence of a God or a Soul

Sir Noone says that medicines can prove the existence of God
Even we have a tradition that says
One day prophet moses became sick and god told him if u don't go to see a doctor I will never cure u

Do u know why?
Because this world is supposed to be a normal world not full of miracles
By problems and difficulties and diseases and death and loosing jobs and properties God will test us
And in the world full of miracles god can't do that

Yet still people come and buy the medicine.. if the medicine eventually has no effect on whether or not you will be cured, why would you need a pharmacy?

We need them like foods that everyday eat there is no difference
But we look toward them as a bounty of god not complete cause

Can you point me in the past 300 years, of any example that you can say without a doubt that it might not have happened if there was no God?
What about the past 1000 years?
You don't find it odd that as science expands it's knowledge, the number of so called miracles is lower?

After prophet muhammad who has claimed that I can bring miracles???
Just please think more and don't gain any religion from its followers

Logic can be very useful

For proving the existence of God causality and infinite regress are best

 

[George-ananda]

Based on what?

Its ability to explain phenomena not explainable (or denied) by western science. And also the quality of the adepts and masters of this tradition.

Of current science.. I Agree..
Let me ask you a question..
Which of the five options seems to you as most reliable answer for the following riddle:

You leave in a world that there is nothing but blue balls in it...
there is an opaque box, in it are balls.
You need to say if there are red balls inside that box...

1. Sure there are, I Know for a fact as I saw it with my own eyes.. unfortunately.. no one else could see it.
2. Sure. There are thousands of people that claim they saw weird things that suggest there are red balls. Not anyone can see those things, rather only people who believe they saw them.
3. Of course there are red balls There is a great book about red balls that explain exactly what red balls are. I Know there are things in that book that are very wrong, but these were all written just to prove a point.. its the things we can't really tell that are the real message of the book.
4. There are no red balls, for sure. There is no way that red balls are real. There is also no way we can ever prove or disprove blue balls are real.
5. I Don't really know. As it seems, we never saw evidence that might suggest that there are red balls.. So it is likely that there are no red balls in the box.

I Would love to hear the answer

I don't think you told this riddle correctly. The situation before the options does not tell me anything of why someone suspects there could be red balls.

You haven't yet established it.. You established the fact that YOU believe there are non-physical entities.

The belief in non-physical entities comes from my own analysis of the evidence and argumentation from all sides of this issue. Each person must do their own thinking. I consider it established beyond reasonable doubt. Since it is the result of careful analysis, how can I establish it for someone else not inclined to believe even sufficient evidence? I don't try unless there is a sign of open-mindedness.

I Can offer any amount of prize right now to the person who can prove I don't communicate with invisible entities that are actually the entities that created this universe.
They communicate with me and claim that everyone should follow my lead and do exactly what I say or else they will be turned into cockroaches after they die.

They also told me the universe is not what we think, rather an illusion and they can suspend the way nature works... but only when they choose to..
I'll review the evidence you offer for this belief and give you my analysis.

Besides that, only if someone really believes they talk to him, will they really talk to him..

It is also of course needless to say that they are not something that is part of this universe so we can't really have evidence to their existence.. but I KNOW they are real.
.

I'll review the evidence you offer for this belief and give you my analysis. (I provided a link earlier for my evidence).

Yet not even one can pass any test ever made in a controlled observed conditions. how weird

Here you just misunderstood me. The triple-blind tests by Dr. Gary Schwartz were under 'controlled observed conditions'.

 

[Segev Moran]

And I guess that's part of the down-side of egalitarian thinking.

Not everything that's good for one person, is good for another. People have the freedom to choose to think whatever they like. The wise one will realize that his situation required a different outcome than his friend's but that they're both equally beneficial for the recipient.

I Agree.. Anyone can choose to think whatever makes him feel good.. That still doesn't make it truth...

 

[Tumah]

I Agree.. Anyone can choose to think whatever makes him feel good.. That still doesn't make it truth...

I agree...

 

[Segev Moran]

With that, if two mothers prayed to the same god and one child dies, their prayers had nothing to do with it.

I Agree

That's their petition but god, in abrahamic thought, does what he feels like. Which is weird because the Bible says otherwise. I'm not familar with the Quran. God didn't kill that child. It's just life. We are born, we live, we suffer, we pass on. It's the mothers responsibilities for her actions in whether she show-boats her child is alive and the other child dies. In the scenario, god can be scapegoat, but unless god is actually present like the man scenario, how do you know god did anything?

Or that it even exists?

Prayers are the actions of people. However we interpret the answers is from us. If I believe that a spirit exists, I know its real.

That's where you lost me...
If you believe that spirit exist... YOU BELIEVE it exists.. you don't KNOW it exist...

First, I'd say think of if god actually exist.

No one knows

Would you feel a bit better if you realize that its in the hands of people rather than an all powerful god? It may be something you can understand more.

As I Am an Atheist, that's exactly what I think... And yes.. it will make me feel much much better to know that humans think for themselves and not base their entire existence on the unknown.
I Think the world will be a much better place if we adopt religion as a philosophy and not as fact.

If you believe god does exist

I do not

Maybe the god of Abraham understands death is a part of life. Maybe you are seeing death as an end when most people who believe the god of Abraham do not.

Again.. it doesn't matter how people "see" things.. 100% of humans can think something to be true.. this does not make it so...

There are many perspectives on how god "supposedly" allows evil. I never believed that. Life is life. If we can't accept death, then we will always find ways to blame god for something even if we believe god doesn't exist (which is weird by itself).

I Don't know an Atheist that blames God for anything...
I See a lot of atheist blaming Theists who blame God for everything...

 

[Segev Moran]

And the God of the Bible wishes you a full, healthy and cheerful life -> Jeremiah 29:11

And what if It doesn't?
How can you tell?

There is No sickness in heaven, No violence, No crime, No war, No pollution and No death in Heaven.

What about hell?

The purpose of Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth is to re-establish the original paradisical edenic conditions as originally existed in the Garden on Eden on Earth.

Why go such a long way if it can be done in an instant?

 

[Segev Moran]

Right, God does Not decide He wants to spare A's life because time and unforeseen events happen to everyone according to Ecclesiastes 9:11.
Like the People at the Tower of Siloam were just at the wrong place, wrong time - Luke 13:4-5

Often man also dominates man to man's hurt or injury - Ecclesiastes 8:9

So what is the purpose of prayer?

 

[Segev Moran]

Notice in the "Lord's Prayer" it says nothing about changing the world. It says nothing about winning the lottery, helping a sick friend or getting a new shinny car or have a house drop on your enemy. What it does say is ask for God's help to be more "holy" or "righteous". Use what ever ever lofty term you want. This very simple prayer is an brief outline on what to ask of God. According to this prayer we should ask God to change how we live within the world. It doesn't say anything about changing the world within we live. "Our daily bread" we ask for is not for the stomach, it's food to nourish the soul.

Why do One need to ask for it? Why wouldn't God provide it as is?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's where you lost me... If you believe that spirit exist... YOU BELIEVE it exists.. you don't KNOW it exist...

I know, just like this computer I am on. I don't see the supernatural, if one likes, different than the natural. Least that's not how I grew up to separate the two. Spirits are a part of the natural world just as you and I.

No one knows

That's always been an odd statement. If someone makes a claim that a Fligadum exists and there is popularity in this belief, it doesn't make it a fact nor does it make it possible. If it isn't true, it isn't true. Unless someone gives some something to consider its possible existence, why would we say we don't know it exist outside the thoughts of people?

Thoughts are just as real as physical world. I don't know why some of us displace it as a fact god exist within the factual workings of the mind. No one has put up a thread that looks into psychological evidence and I assume no theist would even wan to challenge their own belief through that. It would be a good conversation, though.

As I Am an Atheist, that's exactly what I think... And yes.. it will make me feel much much better to know that humans think for themselves and not base their entire existence on the unknown. I Think the world will be a much better place if we adopt religion as a philosophy and not as fact.

Religion is a part of life. Can't separate that as a philosophy. What people believe are most of the time what people know. How do we as outsiders tell believers they are not believing in something real? By what criteria do we have to prove them wrong, really?

Again.. it doesn't matter how people "see" things.. 100% of humans can think something to be true.. this does not make it so...

Since thoughts are considered facts or they exist, it would make it so if we take psychology into consideration as "evidence" of god's existence.

I Don't know an Atheist that blames God for anything... I See a lot of atheist blaming Theists who blame God for everything...

I see a lot of both. The former is usually someone struggling with their belief with god and using him as a scapegoat to understand their own faith. Other times, they use theist as a scapegoat to blame goad for, say, the evil they see in the world.

If god didn't exist, it would make no sense to even have half the discussion on RF that questions and fuss over the existence of god. It would even be more pointless to question if god allows evil. I think both Christian (or whatever believer) and non-christian are taking the Bible a bit too literally.