A recording of NYPD's "Stop and Frisk"

[iamsharky789]

Seems rather presumptuous and arbitrary.

If that was the case, affirmative action would have never even been considered.

 

[Revoltingest]

Please tell me you are being sarcastic.

No.
That would ruin the sarchasm.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sarchasm

 

[Revoltingest]

What is the constitutionality of "Stop and Frisk" laws?

For ref....
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/nyregion/stop-and-frisk-practice-violated-rights-judge-rules.html
It's a clear 4th amendment violation.
(The NYT take on it is interesting....the problem is that minorities'
rights were violated. What are we pasty faced folk...chopped liver!?)

The defense of these types of laws tend to come from Bloomberg's rhetoric about numbers and increasing the safety of the masses from gun violence. But IMO this is just as indefensible as regular police raids into entire neighborhoods for large drug busts, fully armed, to find an ounce of marijuana.

The rationale is that if the majority benefits from the unconstitutional violation of of a minority, then it's OK.
The Constitution is a living document, & can be altered by mayoral fiat. Of course, they won't actually admit this.

Last year, in a Bloomberg appearance at a Brownsville church, there was an admittance that racial profiling does exist, and that law enforcement must treat those they approach more respectfully, but does the legislation actually allow for any sort of "respectful" frisking based on appearance alone?

Respectful = swearing + silencing + beating + threatening
When corruption goes all the way to the top, there will be no sanctions against cops who violate the law.

I'm still searching for the constitutionality of this legislation. I read in various sources that a judge was thrown out by the city after that judge made a decision that the law was indeed unconstitutional.
Dang...just trying to wrap my head around this.

There is no constitutionality, but there will be facile & tortured arguments
to justify what the mayor wants when the whole system is invested in it.
The law be damned.

I'm still mildly shocked that "the people" will put up with sacrificing
constitutional civil liberties so easily & quietly. Yeah, I'm naive.

 

[Revoltingest]

Then check them equally too.

To violate people's civil rights in a racially/ethnically balanced fashion is no solution at all.
The mayor, the courts, the police chiefs & the cops should all be forced to obey the law.
The cops who act illegally should be prosecuted.
The authorities who force the cops to act illegally should be prosecuted.
Bloomberg should be prosecuted.....& convicted.

Why are latino and black men being targeted?

They're perceived as the criminal element...even if over 90% are innocent.
(Don't blame me for this NYC attitude....I don't run the place.)

Prisons are being filled with them and would not survive as a business model without them.

If NYC considers prisons to be a "business model" than I've a low opinion of the voters there.
My idea of good business is to keep as few in prison as possible.

 

[freethinker44]

My idea of good business is to keep as few in prison as possible.

If prison is your business than that's a bad business model.

 

[Apex]

That's a wicked back-peddle you've got there!
You said:-

Thats some **** poor reading comprehension you have there. I never said it "is" a crime, I said "it can be evidence of a crime". And since some posters here love misinterpreting others I then clarified this with post #12 stating that it is a perfectly valid reason only when taken with other signs of criminal activity.

For example say you are working security at a stadium. It is common practice to not allow any outside food, drink, or weapons into stadiums. It is a summer game and someone tries to get in wearing a trenchcoat. It is completely logical to search that person in this context.

Now if Target's Profit Protection Boss is switched on, s/he would be training all staff to approach any 'interesting' persons to give customer-care, 'cos it can save a possible loss, or even produce a profitable sale.

And so, a City cop could approach a trench-coat, offer a 'Good Morning' or whatever, and gauge the situation. But if every person with big bags (!), or other interesting action or condition, is stop-searched............ not good. It would be better to instruct the City CCTV crews to take interest in that person to see how s/he continues through the streets.

1. I have not problem with this, it is a good idea.
2. I never advocated or supported the bolded section.

 

[Revoltingest]

If prison is your business than that's a bad business model.

Methinks you're looking at this all wrong. NYC loses money on its prison operations. So even though they're "in the business", it makes no sense to fill & expand the prisons. Moreover, Bloomberg (who ran the whole shebang) has more more money that God's rich uncle, & didn't stand to profit from it.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

For ref....
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/nyregion/stop-and-frisk-practice-violated-rights-judge-rules.html
It's a clear 4th amendment violation.
(The NYT take on it is interesting....the problem is that minorities'
rights were violated. What are we pasty faced folk...chopped liver!?)

The rationale is that if the majority benefits from the unconstitutional violation of of a minority, then it's OK.
The Constitution is a living document, & can be altered by mayoral fiat. Of course, they won't actually admit this.

Respectful = swearing + silencing + beating + threatening
When corruption goes all the way to the top, there will be no sanctions against cops who violate the law.

There is no constitutionality, but there will be facile & tortured arguments
to justify what the mayor wants when the whole system is invested in it.
The law be damned.

I'm still mildly shocked that "the people" will put up with sacrificing
constitutional civil liberties so easily & quietly. Yeah, I'm naive.

The more I look into it, the angrier I get. It's no wonder all y'all old-timers are so bitter and grumpy.

 

[dawny0826]

A 13 minute video offers a recording of a young man who says he was unlawfully searched, restrained, and threatened by law enforcement....

...who say in anonymous interviews that they must keep their numbers up according to their commanding officers....

Sensationalism? Example of racial profiling? Is the phenomenon of recording police activity helping or hurting when any police district is audited or reviewed?

WARNING: Explicit language in video link.

Per wikipedia, this is the theory behind the program:

The broken windows theory is a criminology theory of the norm-setting and signaling effect of urban disorder and vandalism additional crime and anti-social behavior. The theory states that maintaining and monitoring urban environments in a well-ordered condition may stop further vandalism and escalation into more serious crime. Consider this example: An abandoned building with a few broken windows. Alone it poses no threat. However a few vandals come along and spot these broken windows and decide to break more of them. The building, because of its condition later gets tagged with spray paint. Looking completely run down a few homeless people break in. With time, they light fires, destroy the inner workings of the building and become squatters. This domino effect is the premise behind the broken windows theory. Minor crimes if left unnoticed will eventually escalate in to bigger, more serious crimes. This is the same theory that the NYPD policy uses. The New York Police department's program intends on stopping people in high crimes areas to search for weapons and other substances. The program’s purpose is to remove guns off the street before they are used in more serious crimes. In other words, the NYPD aims to fix the broken window before the squatters get in.[6]

Source


Wikipedia also states this:

Bill de Blasio, who will succeed Bloomberg as mayor in 2014, has pledged to reform the stop-and-frisk program, and is calling for new leadership at the NYPD, an inspector general, and a strong racial profiling bill.[28]

 

[oldbadger]

If NYC considers prisons to be a "business model" than I've a low opinion of the voters there.
My idea of good business is to keep as few in prison as possible.

Prisons...... business models? Isn't that crazy......
Our Prison Service over here is called 'The Prison Service', and it costs billions to build, maintain, service, train and 'personell' it.

There's something that's worse than all this........ I understand that if one is arrested on suspicion of having committed a crime in New York, and possibly other States, that this automatically is entered onto a person's criminal record, and can disbar that person from many public service and military positions. Is this correct? If so, it's utterly wrong. Innocent people can be arrested and later acquitted. But they'll still be 'marked'. That could never happen here.....

 

[dawny0826]

Prisons...... business models? Isn't that crazy......
Our Prison Service over here is called 'The Prison Service', and it costs billions to build, maintain, service, train and 'personell' it.

There's something that's worse than all this........ I understand that if one is arrested on suspicion of having committed a crime in New York, and possibly other States, that this automatically is entered onto a person's criminal record, and can disbar that person from many public service and military positions. Is this correct? If so, it's utterly wrong. Innocent people can be arrested and later acquitted. But they'll still be 'marked'. That could never happen here.....

This is contingent upon the type of criminal background check that an employer might run, oldbadger.

In the states, we're innocent until proven guilty or admit guilt, even when pulled over for a traffic violation. Some criminal background checks, may depict arrests, but, many only depict convictions.

 

[Revoltingest]

The more I look into it, the angrier I get. It's no wonder all y'all old-timers are so bitter and grumpy.

Oh, that's just my natchural state.
Videos like this'un just bring out the real me.

 

[Revoltingest]

Prisons...... business models? Isn't that crazy......
Our Prison Service over here is called 'The Prison Service', and it costs billions to build, maintain, service, train and 'personell' it.

I think the mention of "business" is my leftish brethren & sistern railing against some
privatization of prison management here. I don't know how widespread this is.

 

[Slapstick]

The more I look into it, the angrier I get. It's no wonder all y'all old-timers are so bitter and grumpy.

Yeah... them old grumps are a waste of space and fresh air. I could send my 2 year old nephew in to kick one in the shin and it would be game over for the old diaper wearing scallywags.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah... them old grumps are a waste of space and fresh air. I could send my 2 year old nephew in to kick one in the shin and it would be game over for the old diaper wearing scallywags.

Careful there, or you might find one of those diapers (used) tossed in yer snoot!