A rephrasing of the cosmological argument.

[Link]

Are you saying I'm just right on your use of the word "all" or right on the entire thing, that your logic doesn't support the idea of creator gods at all?

Salam

A bit of both.

 

[firedragon]

If it's so intuitive, why did you take a whole rambling paragraph to (try to) explain it?

Out of respect. And by chance in case you don't have it.

 

[We Never Know]

And that is wrong. At no point is there 'no thing'. Whenever there was
space and time, there was matter and energy.



In standard cosmology, there is no 'point' at which the universe begins.



And in standard cosmology, that was not the case. There was no point when there was no thing.



The four dimensional universe of spacetime simply exists. Time is within it, so it has no beginning in time nor an end in time. All causality occurs within that universe.

It "simply exists".

How is that really any different than saying it was created?

It was created... It simply exists

Isn't both all about choice, believe and thought/want?

 

[We Never Know]

And that is wrong. At no point is there 'no thing'. Whenever there was
space and time, there was matter and energy.



In standard cosmology, there is no 'point' at which the universe begins.



And in standard cosmology, that was not the case. There was no point when there was no thing.



The four dimensional universe of spacetime simply exists. Time is within it, so it has no beginning in time nor an end in time. All causality occurs within that universe.

"At no point is there 'no thing'. Whenever there was space and time, there was matter and energy."

What did all that matter and energy exist in before the universe expanded?
Yeah I know your reply will be "there is no before" however there had to be a "before" before the expantion.
Just because our understanding of our known laws break down at that point doesn't mean there was no before.
Something and everything had to already exist but in what?

Our laws also break down/become illogical with a black hole. But they do exist.

 

[Polymath257]

"At no point is there 'no thing'. Whenever there was space and time, there was matter and energy."

What did all that matter and energy exist in before the universe expanded?
Yeah I know your reply will be "there is no before" however there had to be a "before" before the expantion.
Just because our understanding of our known laws break down at that point doesn't mean there was no before.
Something and everything had to already exist but in what?

Our laws also break down/become illogical with a black hole. But they do exist.

If time existed, then there was something. So if there was nothing, there was no time and so no before.

 

[Polymath257]

It "simply exists".

How is that really any different than saying it was created?

It was created... It simply exists

Isn't both all about choice, believe and thought/want?

To be created means they're was a process. No process is involved with simply existing. Time is part of the universe: all change is within the universe.

 

[PearlSeeker]

"Sean Carroll notes that the equations of quantum mechanics, unlike those of general relativity, permit physicists to calculate eternally into the past or future. With a theory of quantum gravity, we could in principle predict backwards to times preceding the big bang."

Why does anything exist? » AlwaysAsking.com