"A riot is the language of the unheard"

[Kirran]

Why are you asking me hypothetical questions? I have no way to answer them without being God.

I'm differentiating protesting and rioting by the way. I have no issues with protesting because it is a right for Americans to voice their opinions. If we all do it in a legal manner. The rioting becomes a privilege for a few. That's wrong and unfair.

One could also argue that the rioting brings the wrong type of awareness to the cause. As far as I can tell, the conservatives are even more angry and upset about this. Honestly, I can't blame them. They did it by voting so now it's there turn. They endured 8 years of Obama and I don't recall conservatives rioting. They definitely voiced their opinions but as far as I can tell, they did it peacefully.

I seriously can't believe that some folks are advocating destruction and violence as a means of change. We are not living in WW2. The holocaust is not happening. Stop with the comparisons. We have a valid system that works if people just actually practice it. If Obama happened twice then it can happen again. SERIOUSLY, STOP WITH ALL THIS BS ABOUT THE NEED FOR VIOLENCE.

I never said there was a need for it.

I have said that it's what one can expect to happen when a people is oppressed. That's what the Martin Luther King quote is about.

I brought up Stonewall because it was those riots which kicked off the gay liberation movement, brought confidence to gay rights activists and brought nation-wide attention.

 

[suncowiam]

I never said there was a need for it.

I have said that it's what one can expect to happen when a people is oppressed. That's what the Martin Luther King quote is about.

I brought up Stonewall because it was those riots which kicked off the gay liberation movement, brought confidence to gay rights activists and brought nation-wide attention.

Do you think protesting could have had the same effect?

 

[Kirran]

Do you think protesting could have had the same effect?

It is very clear from history that it didn't. Protests were already going on, but it was the Stonewall riots which were a step change.

This is not to say that I support rioting in this case, but I think it is understandable and think the way to stop it is to address the actual concerns of the people being driven to it.

 

[suncowiam]

It is very clear from history that it didn't. Protests were already going on, but it was the Stonewall riots which were a step change.

This is not to say that I support rioting in this case, but I think it is understandable and think the way to stop it is to address the actual concerns of the people being driven to it.

I'll have to believe your assertion here.

If one can riot so can the rest of us, so don't get mad if everyone starts rioting even for causes you don't agree with.

I don't think we're addressing anything new...

 

[Kirran]

I'll have to believe your assertion here.

If one can riot so can the rest of us, so don't get mad if everyone starts rioting even for causes you don't agree with.

I don't think we're addressing anything new...

Right, fair enough.

And well, I think the protesting, and to a far lesser extent rioting, going on in the name of the BLM movement is highly legitimate.

 

[suncowiam]

Right, fair enough.

And well, I think the protesting, and to a far lesser extent rioting, going on in the name of the BLM movement is highly legitimate.

I'm fine with the protesting. Just not fine with violence and damages to other people's property. I can't respect that in any form. Oppression can be very subjective and in the case of BLM, I think it's very subjective when you actually look at the statistics.

As far as I can tell, the cops that have killed wrongly, they are being punished for their actions. I don't think all cops should be labeled the same. It's ironic that a minority group is using the same generalization process that they are trying to defend themselves of. Personally, I think both sides have fault and when both sides find a way to meet in the middle, then I believe we can come to a peaceful resolution.

 

[sayak83]

Strawman...

Because, there is a peaceful solution to this. It's called voting. Those people that didn't vote, shame on them.

The US has a system that allows change. It's just not instantaneous as everyone would like it to be. Change will come if people actually participate in the system.

There are many to blame for Trump's rise, but it's definitely not the owners whose properties were destroyed in the riots.

Voting is simply a choice between two to three candidates usually coming from a highly self-selected group within society. Protest and riots are about forcing them to pursue policies that reflect the interest of the groups that are neglected by them.
If it were the case that 30% protest vote i.e. "blank" ballot would automatically trigger a sacking of all candidates and a re-election, then you would have a case. Otherwise not.

 

[sayak83]

I'm fine with the protesting. Just not fine with violence and damages to other people's property. I can't respect that in any form. Oppression can be very subjective and in the case of BLM, I think it's very subjective when you actually look at the statistics.

As far as I can tell, the cops that have killed wrongly, they are being punished for their actions. I don't think all cops should be labeled the same. It's ironic that a minority group is using the same generalization process that they are trying to defend themselves of. Personally, I think both sides have fault and when both sides find a way to meet in the middle, then I believe we can come to a peaceful resolution.

I recommend "protest-insurance".

 

[suncowiam]

I recommend "protest-insurance".

You mean riot insurance?

I really don't understand your point, so before I try to make a response, I need to be sure what you are saying.

 

[suncowiam]

Voting is simply a choice between two to three candidates usually coming from a highly self-selected group within society. Protest and riots are about forcing them to pursue policies that reflect the interest of the groups that are neglected by them.
If it were the case that 30% protest vote i.e. "blank" ballot would automatically trigger a sacking of all candidates and a re-election, then you would have a case. Otherwise not.

For the sake of not repeating myself... Protesting == good. Rioting == bad.

Obviously, you wouldn't mind if people rioted on your front lawn for causes unrelated to your own? Obviously, this is the point you are making.

 

[sayak83]

For the sake of not repeating myself... Protesting == good. Rioting == bad.

Obviously, you wouldn't mind if people rioted on your front lawn for causes unrelated to your own? Obviously, this is the point you are making.

A riot is simply a protest that has turned violent. When thousands of angry people are out demonstrating, one cannot guarantee something like this will not happen. One can have riots in sporting events for God's sake, and these are far serious matters.

Consider the Greek protests and riots due to the inhuman austerity measures Germany and a corrupt Greek government forced on her people. I am sorry to say, but protests are angry demonstrations by people who are at their wits end. While their anger is directed towards the state usually, there will always be the chance of rioting and other inconveniences to the day to day life in the public square. That is the entire point. The point is to send a message that things are not OK and it cannot be business as usual, either for the State or for the general public anymore given the extreme grievances under which certain groups who are protesting are suffering.

So, if you are in a democracy, buy a riot insurance or something.

 

[suncowiam]

A riot is simply a protest that has turned violent. When thousands of angry people are out demonstrating, one cannot guarantee something like this will not happen. One can have riots in sporting events for God's sake, and these are far serious matters.

Consider the Greek protests and riots due to the inhuman austerity measures Germany and a corrupt Greek government forced on her people. I am sorry to say, but protests are angry demonstrations by people who are at their wits end. While their anger is directed towards the state usually, there will always be the chance of rioting and other inconveniences to the day to day life in the public square. That is the entire point. The point is to send a message that things are not OK and it cannot be business as usual, either for the State or for the general public anymore given the extreme grievances under which certain groups who are protesting are suffering.

So, if you are in a democracy, buy a riot insurance or something.

Seriously, I need to buy riot insurance? That is your logical answer to this?

So now I probably need to buy all other types of insurance because by your logic, illegal actions "just happen".

No one has the will to not start a riot when they're protesting.

How about not rioting in the first place? And also have the compassion and intelligence to know that the violence or damage caused in a riot could affect innocent people?

Also, you didn't answer my question. You absolutely would not mind other people rioting on your property knowing that it could cause damage to your property or hurt people on your property?

 

[sayak83]

Seriously, I need to buy riot insurance? That is your logical answer to this?

So now I probably need to buy all other types of insurance because by your logic, illegal actions "just happen".

No one has the will to not start a riot when they're protesting.

How about not rioting in the first place? And also have the compassion and intelligence to know that the violence or damage caused in a riot could affect innocent people?

Also, you didn't answer my question. You absolutely would not mind other people rioting on your property knowing that it could cause damage to your property or hurt people on your property?

No I won't. I have seen several. Riots, curfews, shut downs.. you name it.

 

[Kirran]

No I won't. I have seen several. Riots, curfews, shut downs.. you name it.

Where have you seen these, sayak?

 

[sayak83]

Where have you seen these, sayak?

India. Kolkata. There are at least 50 protests, 5-6 shutdowns, gheraos and road/rail blockades and 1-2 riots every year.
Voting % is around 85-90 in every local, national or state election in the state for the past 30 years.
While most other states are not as activist, they would have major protests and some rioting at least once or twice in every city in a decade. For example statehood movement for telegrams in the south, anti corruption and women's security protests in Delhi etc.

 

[suncowiam]

No I won't. I have seen several. Riots, curfews, shut downs.. you name it.

Well then you live by your own creed.

Im not going to physically hurt others or damage property that doesn't belong to me just because of my beliefs. I expect the same back to me and my family.

I think we're good...

 

[sayak83]

Well then you live by your own creed.

Im not going to physically hurt others or damage property that doesn't belong to me just because of my beliefs. I expect the same back to me and my family.

I think we're good...

Unless they get taken from you by economic collapse and company shutdowns and layoffs? Do not be too quick to judge others whose shoes you have never been in?

 

[psychoslice]

A riot of the sad and bad loses is more like it, there is no excuse for smashing other peoples property just to get your own way.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

this thread is beginning to remind me of another current thread about the smashing of idols, and whether or not Abraham and Mohammed were justified in using violence and damage to property to spread their religion...

 

[suncowiam]

Unless they get taken from you by economic collapse and company shutdowns and layoffs? Do not be too quick to judge others whose shoes you have never been in?

I've lived through various economic collapses and I didn't need to hurt anyone. Actually, I made money from economic collapsing and wouldn't mind another recession but I'm sure that's not your point.

If people want to fight back against their supposed oppressors, well at least it would help to actually direct the harm and damage to their oppressors. When people riot in public, they have no idea who they're hurting.