A schoolgirl punished for a pro-Palestinian T-shirt in France!!

[Draka]

Okay, I read the second article that was linked to, the one in French, and from what I can gather the History teacher had given a speech on Israel and Palestine the previous day and something about what he had said had upset the girl and she decided to wear the shirt the next day as a kind of "response" to his statements. Then it appears that he went off on her about the shirt in class in front of everyone which brought her to tears and she left the class and school entirely and went to her mother at her workplace still crying.

Now, was her wearing that particular shirt for the reason she wore it completely right? Maybe not, but chastizing the girl in front of the whole class to the point of her leaving in tears and then suspending her for leaving is ludicrous. The teacher was suppose to be the adult there and he should have handled it better. It appears to be much more his fault for not controlling his own bias in a classroom and with a student than it was hers for making a questionable wardrobe decision. It was HE that made it into a huge deal...not her. It should be him who suffers some disciplinary action...not her.

 

[YmirGF]

I think the important point is that if the tables were turned, Muslim teachers in an Islamic republic wouldn't give a damn about a Christian child's sentiments and would likely censure their parents for daring to complain about their treatment. People are so enslaved to the idea of being fair to everyone, including those whose ideology would turn that sense of fairness on its pointy little head, that does tend to take ones breath away.

 

[KatNotKathy]

People are so enslaved to the idea of being fair to everyone, including those whose ideology would turn that sense of fairness on its pointy little head, that it does tend to take ones breath away.

Sorry, but if you don't you're pretty much a terrible human being. Fairness shouldn't apply to a limited subset of people. There are a shocking number of people in this country (and I'm sure in Canadia as well) who want our countries to be dictatorships. Should they be denied the right to vote because they would do the same if they were in power?

Now I know from my history here at RF that like me, you are no friend to Islam. Still though, if a Muslim teacher would do as you said, why would you want to do the same?

 

[Draka]

I think the important point is that if the tables were turned, Muslim teachers in an Islamic republic wouldn't give a damn about a Christian child's sentiments and would likely censure their parents for daring to complain about their treatment. People are so enslaved to the idea of being fair to everyone, including those whose ideology would turn that sense of fairness on its pointy little head, that does tend to take ones breath away.

We're not dealing with an issue where the "tables are turned" and hypothesizing what might be done in another situation does not justify a wrong done in this one. We should be fair. Not fair to everyone except those we perceive might be unfair to us IF roles were reversed. So no...it's entirely NOT important to point out what you think would happen in an opposite situation. It has absolutely no bearing on what actually has happened and what is being discussed here.

 

[YmirGF]

Sorry, but if you don't you're pretty much a terrible human being. Fairness shouldn't apply to a limited subset of people. There are a shocking number of people in this country (and I'm sure in Canadia as well) who want our countries to be dictatorships. Should they be denied the right to vote because they would do the same if they were in power?

Now I know from my history here at RF that like me, you are no friend to Islam. Still though, if a Muslim teacher would do as you said, why would you want to do the same?

If you want my honest opinion, I would say the teacher should have given her a chance to state her position, since it turns out her "protest" was relevant to the previous day's discussion. The fact that she left the room in tears is interesting and very telling. I rather suspect that she had her "facts" stood on their heads and couldn't handle the implications, nor could she respond adequately to someone challenging her position. Pity no one filmed the exchange, that I am aware of, so that we could see what actually took place.

 

[YmirGF]

We're not dealing with an issue where the "tables are turned" and hypothesizing what might be done in another situation does not justify a wrong done in this one. We should be fair. Not fair to everyone except those we perceive might be unfair to us IF roles were reversed. So no...it's entirely NOT important to point out what you think would happen in an opposite situation. It has absolutely no bearing on what actually has happened and what is being discussed here.

The relevance is that one ideology can indeed be quite unfair whereas the other ideology has a tendency to crush any opposition althogether.

 

[darkendless]

If you want my honest opinion, I would say the teacher should have given her a chance to state her position, since it turns out her "protest" was relevant to the previous day's discussion. The fact that she left the room in tears is interesting and very telling. I rather suspect that she had her "facts" stood on their heads and couldn't handle the implications, nor could she respond adequately to someone challenging her position. Pity no one filmed the exchange, that I am aware of, so that we could see what actually took place.

Pretty much.

I think a lot of people are afraid to confront Islam. If that is true, the west is lost.

 

[kai]

there far too much speculation , i cant read french and i cant find much about it in english so to me it seems like a storm in a tea cup. unless i get more info i cant comment further.

On the fall of Europe thing i think immigration needs to be looked at seriously without stifling it with the race card. Again i think our problems are cultural, the people who come here are just so vastly different culturally. we have had a policy of multi culturalism that has failed dismally.




P.S. stick "t shirt school ban" in google , there's hundreds of them everything from Breast cancer research to the confederate flag?

 

[dust1n]

Source

IMO, I don't see why France (or anyone here) wants it's kids to be ignorant of anything at all, including perspectives they probably just disagree with. I can see an Israeli getting away with the Star of David print, but really, there is no way to judge that. It seems to me that the professor had a different view of the situation. But I guess if France whats its kids not to realize that there exist perspectives contrary to the teacher who is teaching them, than by all means, France handles it's own affairs. Personally, if I was the parent, I would be one in the Principal's office threatening to send my kid to a more 'open-minded' school.

EDIT: When I was sophomore in Pace High School, we were barred from wearing 'band t-shirts'. The students simply did it anyway until ISS was overflowing and they could not handle dishing out the punishment anymore. It was removed the next year.

 

[kai]

Personally i don't get how many people come to so many conclusions from that article?

 

[dust1n]

Personally i don't get how many people come to so many conclusions from that article?

Well if the professor is, in fact, 'pro-Israeli' like the mother says, I can less of a chance this happening to someone wearing a 'Support Israel' shirt, but that is just speculation. I guess as long as the school is completely strict about even religious/political contextual t-shirt, than sure, their parents can send them there, whatever. But if that's not the case, that wouldn't be very fair, now would it?

 

[dust1n]

I'm of the opinion that schools should issue uniforms to eliminate the economic, political and religious differences between students that would cause division and disruption in class. Remember back in the day when school age social cliques were based on who wore what brand of shoes? And when kids wore Jebus shirts, but were suspended for wearing "satanic" rock shirts?

I'm all for freedom of speech and expression, but a classroom is a controlled and regulated enviroment for a reason.

Sounds like they should just eliminate brand names, and not ban kids from wearing what they want to. That way, the economic, political and religious differences wouldn't exist, but children could still freely express themselves.

 

[Draka]

If it's not causing a disturbance among the kids to the point of hindering their education then it shouldn't be an issue. If a teacher has issue with something on a kid's t-shirt...tough toogies...be a grown up about it. Ignore it. If you make an issue out of it it will be an issue. I personally don't see the problem with kids wearing shirts with statements on them if they are just expressing opinions. As long as the shirt is not vulgar or obviously causing the children to not pay attention in class, then what's the problem?

 

[kai]

Well if the professor is, in fact, 'pro-Israeli' like the mother says, I can less of a chance this happening to someone wearing a 'Support Israel' shirt, but that is just speculation. I guess as long as the school is completely strict about even religious/political contextual t-shirt, than sure, their parents can send them there, whatever. But if that's not the case, that wouldn't be very fair, now would it?

I don't know enough about it to make a call! who said the professor is "pro Israeli" ? and i don't know anything about the schools policy. It all seems like a storm in a teacup to me.

 

[kai]

If it's not causing a disturbance among the kids to the point of hindering their education then it shouldn't be an issue. If a teacher has issue with something on a kid's t-shirt...tough toogies...be a grown up about it. Ignore it. If you make an issue out of it it will be an issue. I personally don't see the problem with kids wearing shirts with statements on them if they are just expressing opinions. As long as the shirt is not vulgar or obviously causing the children to not pay attention in class, then what's the problem?

who knows what the problem is? do we know the schools policy on dress code? we could start there. I remember getting sent home for wearing jeans to school once. Anybody actually know what school/college it was? i am sure it would have a website with school policy on.

 

[Draka]

who knows what the problem is? do we know the schools policy on dress code? we could start there. I remember getting sent home for wearing jeans to school once. Anybody actually know what school/college it was? i am sure it would have a website with school policy on.

I was talking in general, not this particular case. The article I read seemed pretty clear what happened at this school. I still don't believe it was just the fact that she wore the shirt with anything written on it. It was quite obvious the teacher handled the whole thing wrong and the blame lay with him. The girl is 16, he's an adult authority figure, he should not have gone off on her to the point of her running out of the room in tears. Seems pretty immature and cruel on his end. He could have just ignored the t-shirt. He should have. Especially since it was obviously worn as a result of something he said the previous day. By making a big deal out of it he's the one who made it an issue. If he would have ignored it then none of this would have happened and he also wouldn't have even acknowledged that she had a point. He didn't rise above, he sunk below.

 

[kai]

LYON (France) - A student of 16 in a college in central-eastern France has been ruled out three days from school for "proselytism" because of wearing a T-shirt bearing the inscription "Free Palestine", said Friday a committee supporting pro-Palestinian.

On January 29, in a college of Villefranche-sur-Saone, the young girl, dressed in her T-shirt, had an altercation with her history professor who asked her to cover the T-shirt.

According to the letter from the headmaster of the school to the mother of the schoolgirl, of which AFP has obtained a copy, "the facts committed, that act of proselytism and leaving a course without permission with disobedience, are misconduct justifying disciplinary action.

The penalty will take effect March 2, after the return from the winter holiday of college students.
The pro-Palestinian group, of which the schoolgirl’s mother is member, has decided to support the girl and demand the immediate cancellation of the penalty.

"We salute the courage of Zeyneb who had opposed with her own means the proselytize of her teacher," said the Collective of Villefranche-sur-Saone to the Palestinian people, accusing the professor of history of being pro-Israeli.

The association said it had received 1300 letters of support.
The education authorities in the region were unreachable on Friday morning.


Ok wheres the Israeli supporting teacher? and the bit about running home in tears? what i do see is however:

"the facts committed, that act of proselytism and leaving a course without permission with disobedience, are misconduct justifying disciplinary action.

 

[Draka]

LYON (France) - A student of 16 in a college in central-eastern France has been ruled out three days from school for "proselytism" because of wearing a T-shirt bearing the inscription "Free Palestine", said Friday a committee supporting pro-Palestinian.

On January 29, in a college of Villefranche-sur-Saone, the young girl, dressed in her T-shirt, had an altercation with her history professor who asked her to cover the T-shirt.

According to the letter from the headmaster of the school to the mother of the schoolgirl, of which AFP has obtained a copy, "the facts committed, that act of proselytism and leaving a course without permission with disobedience, are misconduct justifying disciplinary action.

The penalty will take effect March 2, after the return from the winter holiday of college students.
The pro-Palestinian group, of which the schoolgirl’s mother is member, has decided to support the girl and demand the immediate cancellation of the penalty.

"We salute the courage of Zeyneb who had opposed with her own means the proselytize of her teacher," said the Collective of Villefranche-sur-Saone to the Palestinian people, accusing the professor of history of being pro-Israeli.

The association said it had received 1300 letters of support.
The education authorities in the region were unreachable on Friday morning.


Ok wheres the Israeli supporting teacher? and the bit about running home in tears? what i do see is however:

"the facts committed, that act of proselytism and leaving a course without permission with disobedience, are misconduct justifying disciplinary action.

That's from the OP, but it isn't near as descript as this article. That's the one I was getting my information from.

Something was said that "shocked" and "disgusted" the girl to the point of feeling she had to wear the shirt in the first place. The teacher also had a reaction to the shirt. If he wasn't biased in the first place then perhaps not only would his comments not be shocking, but he wouldn't have bothered to react to the shirt. Also, if there wasn't some question about what had transpired with the teacher on the part of the school then they wouldn't be reconsidering the suspension...which, according to this article...they are.

 

[arimoff]

Pretty much.

I think a lot of people are afraid to confront Islam. If that is true, the west is lost.

Well Europe is already lost for sure.

 

[sonofskeptish]

That's from the OP, but it isn't near as descript as this article. That's the one I was getting my information from.

Something was said that "shocked" and "disgusted" the girl to the point of feeling she had to wear the shirt in the first place. The teacher also had a reaction to the shirt. If he wasn't biased in the first place then perhaps not only would his comments not be shocking, but he wouldn't have bothered to react to the shirt. Also, if there wasn't some question about what had transpired with the teacher on the part of the school then they wouldn't be reconsidering the suspension...which, according to this article...they are.

Dang... I wish I could read French. But as per my earlier post, it's rare for these "simple" stories to actually be so "simple".